Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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I bought my house about 25 years ago and it came with this safe in the garage. I don't know it's origins, but I have every expectation it's empty, likely from an old local business. The handle is broken off, however a 1/2 bolt easily fits in the pivot. The lock reads Yale with 100 numbers. A curious wire protrudes from the back, not sure if that is common or a modification.
As a hobby I've constructed an electromechanical device which spins the dial and pulls the handle. I currently have it cycling through thousands of combination attempts, it's been running for days. I understand I could have a locksmith open it, but that wasn't the point. I've already spent more $$ on my hobby.
If I have any hope in this working, i just need a couple likely facts about the lock. 1. How many numbers in the combination. 2. Which direction is the first turn. 3. Is there a well known number as the last.
I believe I've answered #3, as I turn the dial and apply pressure to the handle I feel a distinct detent at zero. Right now I've made assumptions for #1 & 2. I'm beginning clockwise and attempting 3 numbers, excluding zero (4 total).
Very nice photos of the safe, but heads up, you have caster oil leak underneath
That auto dialer you built sounds like some real James Bond stuff! I hope you can share some photos of it in action.
I can only speculate but that wire in the back may have been a magnetic alarm switch mounted inside the door, which would be wired back to a zone on an alarm panel and monitored at night.
Does the ball that was once your handle have 1 hole or 2 holes in it opposite each other?
To answer your questions: 1. 3 numbers in the combination, lock is probably a Yale HE model 2. I'm not sure which direction or if it mattered on this lock, but it's probably 4 Left, 3 Right, 2 Left, 1 Right to stop on Zero 3. 0 is the last number to dial after the 3 combination numbers are dialed 4. handle should turn Counter Clock Wise to retract the door bolts
A lot of retired safes have all the wheels set to the same number such as 50-50-50, or for your safe 50-50-50 and then turn dial to 0 or other simple patterns such as 10-20-30 or 25-50-75 or 25-50-25 or 50-25-50, it would be worth dialing those to see if you get lucky.
Yes, I am also interested to see what you have cooked up. Just a word of warning: Most old safe locks don't have any friction creating washers on the wheels. Even when turning the dial by hand, if you stop too aggressively, the wheel wont stop where you put it. The centrifugal motion causes it to overrun past where you stopped, and you don't get a true reading. If your homebrew autodialer works anywhere near as fast as a commercially available model made for modern locks, you will be very lucky to get that safe open. Slow and very steady is my recommendation.
Squelchtone Thanks for the warm welcome! Caster oil...haha...took me a minute. No worries, just some car run-off after a rain. I do have a video of the device in action, I'll have to find a place to post it, though I'm a little nervous of consequences. Can't wait to see what those wires are attached to, good guess on an alarm related device. The handle ball has only 1 hole, strait down. Figures you would suggest starting counter clockwise, mine is running clockwise first at the moment. I'm a little puzzed how it may not matter, I'll have to study up on the internal workings better, I had an image of simple disks with a pin or paddle. I'll have to try some of those retirement numbers, you'll know if any work because you'll hear a groan from wherever you are!
MakinBacon I was careful to program in acceleration and deceleration into the dial turn. When the dial reaches the new number it slows before it stops. I hope it's enough but could decrease the deceleration even more if needed. Great tip, thanks!
I suspect that is not the original handle stump, but it's not that critical of a part unless you're trying to restore this to be a high end collectible.
I think this hasn't been mentioned already: You need to turn the handle to check if the lock is open. The dial won't stop like modern locks do when they are open.
The rotational direction does probably not matter. My guess is, that the lock was meant to open with a final left turn to 0, because of the asymmetry of the gate in the drive cam. (If the fence gets stuck with old oi and dirtl and needs to be actively pushed out of the drive cam, it will be only pushed out on a right turn.)
Thanks MartinHewitt, no worries I'm attempting a counter clockwise turn of the handle after every combination, when stopping at zero.
I lost you on this comment though.
(If the fence gets stuck with old oi and dirtl and needs to be actively pushed out of the drive cam, it will be only pushed out on a right turn.)
Did you mean "oil and dirt"? Are you saying I should try the handle clockwise then counter clockwise on every turn? Prior to trying a new combination I do push the handle back clockwise until it stops, would that take care of your concern?
Squelchtone wrote:I suspect that is not the original handle stump, but it's not that critical of a part unless you're trying to restore this to be a high end collectible.
I so want to buy that safe just so I can ask the owner what the trick is to opening it (not to mention directions and turns). It would be nice to have a Yale HE lock to take apart and see what I'm dealing with!
I have a very similar HHM safe. The construction is slightly different with yours having the angle iron framework on all corners where as mine only has the front and rear framework. The wheel assemblies are also slightly different. I will bet they have the same lock set up although my handle is different. The dials look identical. The handle is off in this picture.
Despite mine being torn apart for refinishing, I reassembled it to show the lock. It has been on the back burner for a while stuck in the early bodywork stage. Maybe this will get the project going again. lol
Here is the front of the door back together. Sporting a shiny new finish.
With the door rear cover removed here is the lock.
With the wheel pack removed you can see the drive cam. In this lock it is nearest to the dial. When the drive cam gate is in position for the fence the dial is at 0. Note the ramp on the door bolt linkage that moves the gravity fence up into the gates. Mine dials L-R-L-R to 0.
Here is the wheel pack which is similar to many other Yale locks. It has movable flys and friction washers. Note the wide gates.
Here it is in action.
You call that a safe? Let me show you a real safe...
JohnKoz wrote:Ok, I changed the direction to L-R-L-R0. Here's what the dialer does:
Combination 25-50-75 (example)
Starting at zero
Turn left, passing 0 (3-times), stopping at 25
Turn right, passing 25 (2-times), stopping at 50
Turn left, passing 50 (once), stopping at 75
Turn right, (not passing 75), stopping at zero
Pull the handle, push the handle
Go to #1 for next combination
Does that sound right?
I know I've seen step #2 ask for more initial turns (5-6) but is that necessary?
This doesn't sound right... but I haven't had my coffee either...
A. Other than the initial first combination you dial so you can keep track of where you are around the dial, you do not need to start at 0 for each combination it tries.
1. Turn Left so that 25 goes past the dialing index at 12 o'clock 3 times, and stop at 25 the 4th time around
2. Turn Right so that 50 goes past the dialing index at 12 o'clock 2 times, and stop on 50 the 3rd time around
3. Turn Left so that 75 goes pas the dialing index at 12 o'clock 1 time, and stop on 75 the 2nd time around
4. Turn Right until you reach 0, and stop turning.
5. Try turning/pushing handle Counterclockwise to open the door bolts.
If handle doesn't move, dial Left to last number + 5 then go back to step 4 this would dial 25-50-80, then 25-50-85, 25-50-90, 25-50-95, but then when it detects it is about to dial 25-50-0, it should increment 2nd number to 25-55-0 and run through all the 25-55-0 through 95, then do 25-60-0 through 95, eventually you'll be doing 30-0-0 through 30-95-95 and so on etc...
My point is that you don't have to start at Step 1 for each new combination you want to try out, that will take a long time to dial.
I would also personally increment by 5, it will dial the number space much faster than incrementing by 3.
Squelchtone wrote:This doesn't sound right... but I haven't had my coffee either...
It wasn't really wrong, just unusual and as you wrote here not every efficient.
Squelchtone wrote:If handle doesn't move, dial Left to last number + 5 then go back to step 4 this would dial 25-50-80, then 25-50-85, 25-50-90, 25-50-95, but then when it detects it is about to dial 25-50-0, it should increment 2nd number to 25-55-0 and run through all the 25-55-0 through 95, then do 25-60-0 through 95, eventually you'll be doing 30-0-0 through 30-95-95 and so on etc...
If all combinations with 25-50-* should be tested, the first number would be 25-50-55, then all around to 25-50-95, 25-50-0, 25-50-5 and only when we get to 25-50-45 or 25-50-50 we should decrement W2 to 25-45-50. The question is what to do with 25-50-50. We can skip it, we can do it at the beginning, or we can do it at the end of the 25-50-* series. The wheels have movable flies. It is probably the best to do it at the end of the series.
