ASSA binding order?

[ASSAzin]

Hi,
I'm trying to pick a six pin ASSA Neptun High Sec (no finger pins) in a progressive way. The first 3 of 3 pins set like a dance (starting from the back of the cylinder 6-5-4), increasing to 4 and 5 pins (6-5-4-2-1) can be managed. But when I get to 6 pins it's impossible. All six pins end up in an over-lifted state (overset), and when I very slowly ease off the tension they all drop. It seems the 6th pin causes all the problems. I've tried different tension, TOK and BOK, CW and CCW.

Any ideas?

[GWiens2001]

The pin at the tip of the key is the #1 pin. The pin closest to the key bow is the #6 pin. ASSA numbers the pin chambers the same way as Best.

Are you sure that all the pins are being overset? ASSA is really good about making countermilling in their chambers to catch the lips of their security pins.

Gordon

[ASSAzin]

Hi Gordon,
Thanks, you are right "ASSA literature numbers pins and key bitting positions from tip (back) to bow (front)." (Lockwiki). Yes, all pins get overset, I use a cutaway so I can see this. No barrel pins get stuck in the countermilling. As soon as I ease off the tension, the pins pop up in an overset state. It's pin/ pin chamber 4 that causes all the problems. I was thinking: could it be a damage to the no 4 pin chamber during the cutaway process? Any other ideas or suggestions?

[GWiens2001]

Think we may have some confusion.

Based on what you just said, I believe you may be in Europe, where the locks are usually mounted with the pins at the bottom of the keyway. You say that when you release tension,” the pins pop up to the overset state”.

The springs will always try to push the pins further into the keyway. So if the pins are at the bottom of the keyway, then for the pins to be overset, the key pins must be picked/pushed down until they block the shear line.

A pin is overset when the key pin (the one that contacts the key) is blocking the shear line. If the driver pin is blocking the shear line, then the pin is not yet set. When the key pin and driver pin are meeting exactly at the shear line, with the driver pin not able to be moved by the spring into the plug, then the pin is set

A quick test is to rotate the entire lock so the pins are at the top of the keyway. If the driver pins drop into the plug, it is not set. If the driver pin stays at the top if the shear line and the key pin falls to the bottom of the pin channel, it is properly set. If the driver pin is blocking the shear line but the key pin drops freely, the pin is not yet set. And finally, if the key pin stays up at or above the shear line, then the pin is overset.

Good luck!

Gordon

[ASSAzin]

Hi Gordon,

Thanks for your latest reply. Yes, I'm in Europe (Sweden) but we don't have the Euro cylinder format (pins at bottom) but instead the Scandinavian oval cylinder with pins on top of the cylinder.

Please let me clarify what I experience:

1. Starting with a cylinder core without pins: When I put pins no. 1,2 and 3 in the core (ie. key pin + top/driver pin + spring) I can easily set all 3 pins and turn the core/open the lock
2. When I add pins no. 5 and 6 I can set all 5 pins with some effort (pin 6 is the first to bind) and finally get the core to turn (open)
3. Finally, adding pin no. 4 in chamber 4 (ie. key pin + top/driver pin + spring) - now all chambers 1-6 are filled - I cannot find ANY binding pin. Have put some hours into this but it won't bind
4. What happens is this: pins 4-6 don't bind at all with normal TOK/BOK tension, the pin stacks just keep moving up/down when I push/release them. If I use heavy tension they won't move at all, and when I gradually release tension they release ("snap") into an overset state, ie. both key and top/driver pins get stuck above the shear line. There is no way to find a "sweet spot" in between these two states, where the top pin sets and the key pin is loose and giggles.
5. With medium/heavy tension (TOK/BOK) pins 1-3 are firmly stuck, when I ease off tension they snap into an overset state, ie. key- and top pins overset above the shear line. No way to find a sweet spot here either.
6. As stated I've tried different TOK/BOK settings, CW and CCW and ever put the tension wrench in the back(!) of the cylinder, just to see if tension spreads unevenly. No luck with any of this.
7. Also, the cylinder housing is a cutaway so I can see all pin and spring action.

I'm puzzled, have never experienced this... Very grateful for any advice.

Thanks!
Xtian

[GWiens2001]

Hej do! Xtian, seems like the quickest test to see if the problem is with the pins or pin channel at chamber 4 is to remove all pin stacks from the lock except for the pin stack in chamber 4. Check if the pins slide in smoothly before you install the spring. If they do work smoothly, add the spring and top cap and pick the lock with only the number four pin stack.

As you said earlier, I suspect there is a burr or other problem with the milled area. This should help confirm the issue.

Lycka till.

Gordon