Old Yale lock will no longer open

[PopsAU]

Have an old moderately old safe with a Yale lock and the combination which I have used successfully for almost 50 years no longer works. The safe is probably from the 1920’s and was used in a bank till the late 60’s when my father acquired it. We moved a couple years ago near large semi-salt water area. The safe is in the garage and multiple other tools have shown considerable rust over the past 2 years. The safe worked well in the new location for almost a year. It is a dual door safe about 7’ high, 4’ wide and about 2’ deep on the outside and weighs about 900 lbs. I’m guessing there may have been some rust internal if the mechanism is steel. Have read and followed suggestion in a Jan 2015 post on this site.

Any suggestions on how to address this or how to find a professional to help? Can provide photos if relevant.

[Squelchtone]

Photos would help a lot. Would like to see entire safe including the wheel and top corners including hinges, and a close up of the dial and handle.

Are you dialing from memory or from a piece of paper that has been using all along? what happens after you enter the last number, can you turn the handle? does the dial stop dead at any part of the dialing procedure?

to upload a photo to imgur.com go to http://imgur.com

click New Post button at the top

click Browse and find the picture on your computer

once you see the photo on imgur's site, right click it and click Copy Image Address, then come here and right click and Paste it in your reply.

hope that helps
Squelchtone

[PopsAU]

https://i.imgur.com/EkIRkRf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uzPw3lj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zgriUKr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/w6mhphd.jpg

Thank you very much for the quick reply. Above are photos of the front, side, latch and knob and the knob and a hinge.
The knob moves very smoothly with no change when getting to the end. I.E. it does not stop as it did previously. I both remember the numbers and check a note to confirm.

[MartinHewitt]

How long did you not open the safe? Did you also write down the dialling directions and the number of rotations?

[PopsAU]

Have not opened the safe since May 2019. The first time it did not open may have been a couple months after that, i.e. over a year in the damp area when it would not open. Yes, I have the turning instructions and numbers written and did check them carefully when it did not open. The one point I have over the years missed was to initially turn in the wrong direction, so have tried both directions. With the exception of occasionally starting in the wrong direction, I remember only very smooth openings.

[Squelchtone]

Have not opened the safe since May 2019. The first time it did not open may have been a couple months after that, i.e. over a year in the damp area when it would not open. Yes, I have the turning instructions and numbers written and did check them carefully when it did not open. The one point I have over the years missed was to initially turn in the wrong direction, so have tried both directions. With the exception of occasionally starting in the wrong direction, I remember only very smooth openings.

does the dial stop when you complete entering the combination? what is the actual issue you are having? the handle wont throw? or does the handle throw but the doors wont pull open?

Thanks for any additional details you can provide of what isnt actually working.
Squelcthone

[PopsAU]

The dial does not stop when completing the combo as it did for many years. That seems to be the problem. The handles of course will not open, but wiggled anyway to see if there is any symptom, but no.

My guess is when the combo is complete gravity allows something to drop and then things can move. Because there has been considerable rust on various tools, some sort of corrosion is preventing the whatevers from dropping.

[billdeserthills]

The dial does not stop when completing the combo as it did for many years. That seems to be the problem. The handles of course will not open, but wiggled anyway to see if there is any symptom, but no.

My guess is when the combo is complete gravity allows something to drop and then things can move. Because there has been considerable rust on various tools, some sort of corrosion is preventing the whatevers from dropping.

If that's what is happening, you can dial the combo & give the door a whack with a rubber mallet/ deadblow hammer or even hold a piece of scrap wood to the door & smack it with a regular hammer-- sometimes that will allow the fence to drop into the wheels

[PopsAU]

Have tired multiple “tapping” approaches. Used 2lb rawhide mallet and carefully a 5lb plastic sledge primarily on the area surrounding the dial. Did a little of the rawhide on the dial. Have done this before dialing, during and at the end of dialing before turning to the stop. Also did a little with the sledge on both doors and areas including tops, bottoms and sides. Due to current challenging access, have not tried within the past couple months. Hopefully will gain convenient access to try all of the above PLUS any addition advice within a couple days.

[billdeserthills]

Have tired multiple “tapping” approaches. Used 2lb rawhide mallet and carefully a 5lb plastic sledge primarily on the area surrounding the dial. Did a little of the rawhide on the dial. Have done this before dialing, during and at the end of dialing before turning to the stop. Also did a little with the sledge on both doors and areas including tops, bottoms and sides. Due to current challenging access, have not tried within the past couple months. Hopefully will gain convenient access to try all of the above PLUS any addition advice within a couple days.

It's important to use the hammer after the combo has been dialed & the gates are clear, so the fence can drop in

[PopsAU]

Thanks very much for this reply. That is what I did, but I was “careful” while tapping so as soon as can gain good access will go at it again and tap a bit more aggressive. May also use a smaller steel hammer. Will be a few days and will post the results.

Thanks,

[billdeserthills]

I like to use a deadblow hammer, it really gives a good whack without distorting the door--otherwise a block of wood & a few good whacks with a regular hammer have worked for me in the past

[PopsAU]

The referenced “plastic sledge” actually is a deadbolt, sorry didn’t use that term. Also, thanks for referencing “a good whack” because I was maybe a little too gentle. Will let you know in a few days.

[PopsAU]

Spent about a half hour trying to unlock with considerable use of the deadblow hammer. The safe door is even more solid than I thought so was smacking quit hard. Tried at each number while holding the knob and even more at the final number. No luck. It’s a long story, but following is detail about using the combination.

Turned clockwise 5 or more times stopping at #1. Then counterclockwise stopping at #2 the second time. Then clockwise directly to #3. As I remember when starting counterclockwise from #3 there would be a feeling of some type of movement getting more obvious and actually stopping the knob at a number about a third the way round. Then the handles would open. Today during the pounding I took several passes as described above hammering more each trial while holding the dial steady. Did extra pounding at #3 and also as moving toward the normal stop. After two or three attempts, stepped through the process without pounding. Did multiple passes just pounding the door, hinges, lighter on the handles and then trying the several steps as described above. Repeated the process a couple times. No change.

Any other suggestions or corrections to these attempts?

[Squelchtone]

Spent about a half hour trying to unlock with considerable use of the deadblow hammer. The safe door is even more solid than I thought so was smacking quit hard. Tried at each number while holding the knob and even more at the final number. No luck. It’s a long story, but following is detail about using the combination.

Turned clockwise 5 or more times stopping at #1. Then counterclockwise stopping at #2 the second time. Then clockwise directly to #3. As I remember when starting counterclockwise from #3 there would be a feeling of some type of movement getting more obvious and actually stopping the knob at a number about a third the way round. Then the handles would open. Today during the pounding I took several passes as described above hammering more each trial while holding the dial steady. Did extra pounding at #3 and also as moving toward the normal stop. After two or three attempts, stepped through the process without pounding. Did multiple passes just pounding the door, hinges, lighter on the handles and then trying the several steps as described above. Repeated the process a couple times. No change.

Any other suggestions or corrections to these attempts?

Your dialing procedure does not sound correct.. it sounds incomplete. if you have this piece of paper with the combo written on it from years ago, could you take a photo of it and email it to me at squelchtone @ lockpicking101 dot com. I wont post it here unless you ok it, but I'll reply with the way I would dial it based on the notes I see.