Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
Forum rules You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.
Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.
If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.
Just joined. Total virgin when it comes to old safes. I have a modern dial one. right, left, right, turn handle. Any who.. Long story short. Grandfather died long ago. Only one that knew how to use this safe. Dad had for decades but didn't have time to mess with. He's terminal. I'd like to finally get this open before he passes just so he knows whats in it.
Here is what we have:
No wheels but two bolt holes at each corner for wheels
Here is a hinge:
Here is the dial:
Here are some numbers stamped on the dial: I've tried these a couple different ways but no open. But I may be totally trying to open wrong. Can I get REALLY dumbed down instructions on how to try and open with these numbers? Or is this a 4 number safe and I'm missing one?
The dial also pulls in and out about 1/8": Not sure if this is correct and means it completely jacked. But when I turn the dial, I can feel some resistance and hear a click when changing direction. So I think the wheels are still working...
Lastly, I have this: It looks like a drill hole to me that was filled. But maybe its not.
Well, that is what I have. Any guidance you all can provide would be great. We know there is stuff inside as you can hear it rattling around. But only granddad knew whats in there. LEt me know if you need any more info...
Hello and welcome to the forum. That's a nice safe you have there. Be patient and don't ruin it by rushing to get it open.
First of all, we can't see the pictures you shared unless we use google to login. There's a "How to include a photo in your post" tutorial right here, over the text editor, while you type your message.
The number stamped on the dial is not the combination. That wouldn't be much secure. Unless you have the combination written somewhere and I misunderstood your post.
That said, your best bet would be to get a safe tech to quote you a price to manipulate the safe open. He can do it without damage. Or he can drill one small hole, easily repair it, and get your safe back to service. If you're willing to do it yourself, you're more than welcome to learn manipulation. There are a few guides available online, here's mine. Get ready to spend days learning. Yes, days, not hours. And then you may get your safe open by yourself and get a new hobby along the way. If you're willing to try it out, we're here to help.
Just joined. Total virgin when it comes to old safes. I have a modern dial one. right, left, right, turn handle. Any who.. Long story short. Grandfather died long ago. Only one that knew how to use this safe. Dad had for decades but didn't have time to mess with. He's terminal. I'd like to finally get this open before he passes just so he knows whats in it.
Here is what we have:
No wheels but two bolt holes at each corner for wheels
Here is a hinge:
Here is the dial:
Here are some numbers stamped on the dial: I've tried these a couple different ways but no open. But I may be totally trying to open wrong. Can I get REALLY dumbed down instructions on how to try and open with these numbers? Or is this a 4 number safe and I'm missing one?
The dial also pulls in and out about 1/8": Not sure if this is correct and means it completely jacked. But when I turn the dial, I can feel some resistance and hear a click when changing direction. So I think the wheels are still working...
Lastly, I have this: It looks like a drill hole to me that was filled. But maybe its not.
Well, that is what I have. Any guidance you all can provide would be great. We know there is stuff inside as you can hear it rattling around. But only granddad knew whats in there. LEt me know if you need any more info...
femurat wrote:Hello and welcome to the forum. That's a nice safe you have there. Be patient and don't ruin it by rushing to get it open.
First of all, we can't see the pictures you shared unless we use google to login. There's a "How to include a photo in your post" tutorial right here, over the text editor, while you type your message.
The number stamped on the dial is not the combination. That wouldn't be much secure. Unless you have the combination written somewhere and I misunderstood your post.
That said, your best bet would be to get a safe tech to quote you a price to manipulate the safe open. He can do it without damage. Or he can drill one small hole, easily repair it, and get your safe back to service. If you're willing to do it yourself, you're more than welcome to learn manipulation. There are a few guides available online, here's mine. Get ready to spend days learning. Yes, days, not hours. And then you may get your safe open by yourself and get a new hobby along the way. If you're willing to try it out, we're here to help.
MartinHewitt wrote:The lock should open with 4xL, 3xR, 2xL, R to stop. The R to stop retracts the bolt. That might require a bit more force on the dial.
Does the index point straight up? Is the dial ring loose?
OK, just to be as clear a MUD. For a combo of say 10, 20, 30. 1. Start the dial at 0 2. Turn the dial COUNTERCLOCKWISE and PASS 0 4 times 3. continue turning and stop at 10.
4. turn the dial CLOCKWISE and pass 10 3 times 5. continue turning and stop at 20.
6. Turn the dial COUNTERCLOCKWISE and pass 20 twice 7. Continue turning and stop at 30.
8. Turn the dial clockwise. should feel additional resistance to move the bolt.
Is that all correct??
The Index is slightly off to the right. Maybe 5-7 degrees... The ring does not seem to move.
Update to the 1/8" in/out travel of the dial. To clarify, it slides in and out with no effort. No resistance, no return to in or out. If I pull out and rotate the dial. I can hear and feel two wheels engage at different times. IF I push in and turn, I never feel any wheels engage. So... What does that mean? Anyone ever hear of this?
Any other thoughts on: It possibly being drilled previously? Conformation my combo example is correct?
It means the spline key came off the drive cam and spindle which holds it together.
That can eventually cause the spindle (threaded rod attached to the back of the dial) to come out of the drive cam and pop out in your hand. That would not be a good thing.
I normally do not recommend that people snap the dial when turning it, as it can damage the flies on the wheels. But you might try it a couple times (ONLY in a clockwise direction). See if that starts to close the gap of how far the dial slides in/out.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
MartinHewitt wrote:The lock should open with 4xL, 3xR, 2xL, R to stop. The R to stop retracts the bolt. That might require a bit more force on the dial.
Does the index point straight up? Is the dial ring loose?
OK, just to be as clear a MUD. For a combo of say 10, 20, 30. 1. Start the dial at 0 2. Turn the dial COUNTERCLOCKWISE and PASS 0 4 times 3. continue turning and stop at 10.
4. turn the dial CLOCKWISE and pass 10 3 times 5. continue turning and stop at 20.
6. Turn the dial COUNTERCLOCKWISE and pass 20 twice 7. Continue turning and stop at 30.
8. Turn the dial clockwise. should feel additional resistance to move the bolt.
Is that all correct??
The Index is slightly off to the right. Maybe 5-7 degrees... The ring does not seem to move.
No need to start at 0.. I know some people throw that around in their instructions but there is no need to start at 0.
If the combination is 10-20-30 this is how I would dial it:
No matter where the dial is at the dialing index, just start turning the dial Left (Counter-Clockwise) Pass by 10 three times and stop on 10 the fourth time around
Change dialing direction and dial Right (Clockwise) Pass by 20 two times and stop on 20 the third time around
Change dialing direction and dial Left (Counter-Clockwise) Pass by 30 one time and stop by 30 the second time around
At this point the fence should have dropped into the wheel gates, change direction and dial Right (Clockwise) to retract the lock bolt and the dial should Stop and not allow you to turn it any further.
Squelchtone wrote:No need to start at 0.. I know some people throw that around in their instructions but there is no need to start at 0.
If the combination is 10-20-30 this is how I would dial it:
No matter where the dial is at the dialing index, just start turning the dial Left (Counter-Clockwise) Pass by 10 three times and stop on 10 the fourth time around
Change dialing direction and dial Right (Clockwise) Pass by 20 two times and stop on 20 the third time around
Change dialing direction and dial Left (Counter-Clockwise) Pass by 30 one time and stop by 30 the second time around
At this point the fence should have dropped into the wheel gates, change direction and dial Right (Clockwise) to retract the lock bolt and the dial should Stop and not allow you to turn it any further.
Now you can pull the door open.
Hope this helps, Squelchtone
Squelchtone. That's perfect. exactly what I needed. But one question. Since the third wheel (dial cam?) is fixed to the dial, what would prevent the gate from dropping the FIRST time you passed 30? You have the first and second wheel in the correct positions... My understanding is that the dial cam is always turning with the dial and only the 1st and 2nd wheels are "picked up" as you turn...
Next: OK, so after a BUNCH of experimenting, I've discovered that the dial pulling in and out is an issue. if I keep outward tension on the dial, the wheels will engage and it seems to work as it should. As soon as I release the outward tension on the dial, the dial fall inward and both wheels immediately disengage. If I turn the dial without pulling out slightly, it NEVER picks up either wheels.... soooo.. I guess I have to try and crack it while always adding some pulling tension on the dial. And I can only hope that when it does fall back, the combo isn't changing.... Is that even possible?
Thanks all for the support. This is crazy fun learning.....
OK all. I have an update. And its not a good one. After lots of hours turning the dial back and forth listening to clicks, pops, grinds and boings.... The dial started to get hard to turn and all the in/out slop disappeared... This was when I turn it clockwise.. Eventually, it gets very hard to turn but doesn't get any harder. And I mean like you almost need a wrench to turn it.
But if I turn it counterclockwise, the dial loosens up and the in/out slop returns. So.... What the hell?? I'm beginning to think this dial assembly is completely screwed. My real worry is that the pin that holds the dial to the threaded rod has come out and the dial is turning on the dial shaft.. If that's the case, the combo would constantly be changing wouldn't it?
Anyone have any other thoughts? I could really use to detailed thoughts on my next moves......
As I mentioned before, the spline key has come out of the drive cam. That is what keeps the drive cam and spline locked together. Without the spline key, the spindle unthreads from the drive cam and becomes looser, or if turned the other way the dial becomes looser and looser until eventually it unthreads completely and the dial and spindle comes out of the lock and door in your hands.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
GWiens2001 wrote:As I mentioned before, the spline key has come out of the drive cam. That is what keeps the drive cam and spline locked together. Without the spline key, the spindle unthreads from the drive cam and becomes looser, or if turned the other way the dial becomes looser and looser until eventually it unthreads completely and the dial and spindle comes out of the lock and door in your hands.
Gordon
Gordon, yep, I got that. So the question is: IF the dial is screwing in or out, is the combo changing? I'm going to have a tough enough time cracking this without the combo changing. or is there a spline that is keeping the drive cam inthe same position?
GWiens2001 wrote:As I mentioned before, the spline key has come out of the drive cam. That is what keeps the drive cam and spline locked together. Without the spline key, the spindle unthreads from the drive cam and becomes looser, or if turned the other way the dial becomes looser and looser until eventually it unthreads completely and the dial and spindle comes out of the lock and door in your hands.
Gordon
Gordon, yep, I got that. So the question is: IF the dial is screwing in or out, is the combo changing? I'm going to have a tough enough time cracking this without the combo changing. or is there a spline that is keeping the drive cam inthe same position?
I don't think you'll able to manipulate it open or even dial the combination if you knew it if the dial shaft is not in proper sync with the drive cam. You may need to see how a dial spindle, drive cam, and spline key work in concert so you know what's going on inside your lock.
To answer you question, when the dial and spindle is threading in or threading out and you turn it in either direction, the combination wheels are probably not doing anything, they may be shifting a little bit but there is a chance they are not even moving at all.
I recommend watching this video of a modern S&G 6730 being installed to gain some insight:
Squelchtone wrote: I don't think you'll able to manipulate it open or even dial the combination if you knew it if the dial shaft is not in proper sync with the drive cam. You may need to see how a dial spindle, drive cam, and spline key work in concert so you know what's going on inside your lock.
To answer you question, when the dial and spindle is threading in or threading out and you turn it in either direction, the combination wheels are probably not doing anything, they may be shifting a little bit but there is a chance they are not even moving at all.
Squelchtone
Squelch, exactly my thoughts. so I see two possibilities.
1. the knob is tuning where it connects to the rod: If its this, the only solution I can think of is to drill the center of the dial to the rod connection. then squirt in a bunch of Locktite and see if it locks the threads of the rod.
2.the shaft is turning where it connects to the drive cam: If its turning here, I have no clue than to drill the safe and scope the wheels where the gate is.... but I dont see outer threads on this end. And the video its from shows the screw reverse threaded going inside the rod. so I'm not sure it could screw in and out........
So, in everybodys best opinion, is it number 1 or 2? And what would you recommend I do?
