Help with a victor (I think) safe

[GWiens2001]

I would suggest going to www.savta.org and find a proper safe technician in your area to open the safe.

Gordon

[damonwill]

I would suggest going to http://www.savta.org and find a proper safe technician in your area to open the safe.

Gordon

Called and left a message. any idea of the cost? I cant afford much.... and opinion on the issue?

[Squelchtone]

Since you started 3 different threads for your safe (I meant to put them all together into 1, because honestly now it's all over the place) I don't know if anyone has shown you the nice color photos of what your lock looks like inside. https://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 40#p109406 ****important note: your safe may or may not have this lock inside it... I'm having some doubts as to if your lock is a Yale L-1 or Yale L-2 or something older that Victor used based on the shape of your dial, the dial ears, and the look of the numbers around the dial and it's geometry.

Whoever you called, if they are a SAVTA tech, will be able to look up what kind of lock is most likely inside your safe and if the dial is removed, I assuming you have a dial ring attached to the door and the knob and numbered dial is removed, which will make it easier for them to drill and scope in the place they need to do so. I don't know where you live and prices do vary if the person has to drive 2 hours to your house or if you are going to bring the safe to their shop, but I would venture to say that at least $200 to $500 to come out and open it and if your lucky put the lock back in working order, but that may cost extra if they have to machine parts, or braze anything back together that broke inside.

Good call from GWiens2001 to call a SAVTA safe tech at this point. I'd slow down and take a step back and not do any drilling or locktite or anything before you end up possibly causing more issues and then have to pay even more to get it open.

good luck,
Squelchtone

[damonwill]

Since you started 3 different threads for your safe (I meant to put them all together into 1, because honestly now it's all over the place) I don't know if anyone has shown you the nice color photos of what your lock looks like inside. https://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 40#p109406 ****important note: your safe may or may not have this lock inside it... I'm having some doubts as to if your lock is a Yale L-1 or Yale L-2 or something older that Victor used based on the shape of your dial, the dial ears, and the look of the numbers around the dial and it's geometry.

Whoever you called, if they are a SAVTA tech, will be able to look up what kind of lock is most likely inside your safe and if the dial is removed, I assuming you have a dial ring attached to the door and the knob and numbered dial is removed, which will make it easier for them to drill and scope in the place they need to do so. I don't know where you live and prices do vary if the person has to drive 2 hours to your house or if you are going to bring the safe to their shop, but I would venture to say that at least $200 to $500 to come out and open it and if your lucky put the lock back in working order, but that may cost extra if they have to machine parts, or braze anything back together that broke inside.

Good call from GWiens2001 to call a SAVTA safe tech at this point. I'd slow down and take a step back and not do any drilling or locktite or anything before you end up possibly causing more issues and then have to pay even more to get it open.

good luck,
Squelchtone

Sorry about the multiple threads. Most forums want one topic per thread. I'll only use this one now since the dial is problematic and no one has a dial assemble..

The link you posted has three wheels and a drive cam. mine MAY only have two wheels as when I turn, only two get picked up. but again, the dial may be completely jacked..

I'm not in a hurry, necessarily, to open it. But when the situation changes, I act quickly to re-evaluate and come up with a plan of attack. Sorry for being excited about this new adventure...

[MartinHewitt]

Your safe was drilled. The person who did that could have done a lot of modifications inside the lock. Maybe one wheel was damaged by the opening and then removed. Usually old dial assemblies won't part even when you want them to, but it is not unusual, that something in the lock has not been correctly reassembled. So I think the drive cam side is your problem. I don't think this safe can be opened without any damage.

[billdeserthills]

Your safe was drilled. The person who did that could have done a lot of modifications inside the lock. Maybe one wheel was damaged by the opening and then removed. Usually old dial assemblies won't part even when you want them to, but it is not unusual, that something in the lock has not been correctly reassembled. So I think the drive cam side is your problem. I don't think this safe can be opened without any damage.

If the drilling was done under the dial, into the dial ring the choice of area for penetration seems a poor choice

[MartinHewitt]

Not a great choice for opening, but maybe the tech thought it would not be that visible there than where it should have been.

[Safecrackin Sammy]

Not a great choice for opening, but maybe the tech thought it would not be that visible there than where it should have been.

I would guess somebody thought it was an under dog and drilled for that. This would have been a good shot if they had the right lock.

[damonwill]

Not a great choice for opening, but maybe the tech thought it would not be that visible there than where it should have been.

MartinHewitt, that was my thought. Its less noticeable and you could still see the wheels (I assume). I'll be sure to point it out to the tech on tuesday. I think its interesting that they repaired the drill point. My next question would be, did they repair the drill hole UNDER the dial ring or did they also repair that. I"ll get a thin feeler gauge and see if I can detect a hole or not....

Thanks for your insight...

UPDATE: I checked with a very thin feeler gauge and I can detect NO hole. So maybe they repaired the holes in the safe AND the dial ring.....

[damonwill]

Alrighty Ladies and Gentlemen, some new information and decisions to be made..

The SAVTA safe tech said really no way to open the safe with the dial the way it it. It has to be drilled and scoped to even see if its possible to open without total destruction of the safe. It would cost me $750 to have it opened. He was very smart and great guy to talk to. Sadly, I have twin 3 month olds and am currently unemployed. so lets just say that's a bit too steep for now. I'll leave that as a last resort. But he also gave me some good insight as to possible issues. So here is the plan I've come up with and wanted your input....

Plan A:
I'm going to build a dialing robot. I've experimented ALOT over the last couple days and I think if I use some pulling tension on the dial and dial slowly, I can prevent the dial from turning on the shaft. Then I just have to dial each possible combo until I hit whatever works. I know I can dial in multiples of 2 instead of 1 so that cuts down the possible combos from 1,000,000 to 125,000. Most of the time the safe just sits in my garage so at least the robot can be running 24 hours a day. Take a couple weeks at worst...

Plan B:
If I go through all the possible combos (plan A) and it doesn't open, the dial is still rotating on the shaft. So need to repair the dial/shaft issue. Best way I can think of is drill the center of the dial to the shaft and add enough Locktite to hold it in place. Then re-run the dialing robot.

Plan C:
IF plan B failed, that means its going to have to be drilled and scoped. I'll figure the path on that one when I have no other alternative..

So what is everyones thoughts? I'm a computer programmer and machinist so I already have all the parts I need to build the robot. But I may need some advice on the most efficient dialing procedure....

Thanks for all the help...

[billdeserthills]

Wow, $750 to drill an old safe with zero hardplate in it--ridiculous

[mastersmith]

I don't know if this is worth mentioning, so of course, here goes! A long time ago when I did this full time I had this problem with Star lift out doors, a lot. These had a removable dial which made this easier. I took a spare spindle and drilled a hole through the face to the spindle, drilling in line with the spline key slot. When a call came in for this I could swap the spindle from the outside of the safe, use a long spline key that I made to reattach the cam to the spindle (from the wrong side) and then put on a dial and just dial the safe open. But many things are different. For starters the cam stayed put because of the design of the safe, so the spindle was easy to reattach. Anyway maybe this will get some ideas brewing in this group that might help in this situation. Good luck.

[bitbuster]

Right on, Bill, right on.

[GWiens2001]

I don't know if this is worth mentioning, so of course, here goes! A long time ago when I did this full time I had this problem with Star lift out doors, a lot. These had a removable dial which made this easier. I took a spare spindle and drilled a hole through the face to the spindle, drilling in line with the spline key slot. When a call came in for this I could swap the spindle from the outside of the safe, use a long spline key that I made to reattach the cam to the spindle (from the wrong side) and then put on a dial and just dial the safe open. But many things are different. For starters the cam stayed put because of the design of the safe, so the spindle was easy to reattach. Anyway maybe this will get some ideas brewing in this group that might help in this situation. Good luck.

If he decides to attempt this method, I would recommend carefully laying the safe down on its back. That way if the spindle is unthreaded from the drive cam, the drive cam will not drop down out of alignment with the spindle hole. Then it would be in the same orientation as a lift out door.

Gordon

[femurat]

Both mastersmith and Gordon gave excellent suggestions.
I try to add my own: don't use Locktite in a lock... trust me.

Cheers