Help with a victor (I think) safe

[damonwill]

Both mastersmith and Gordon gave excellent suggestions.
I try to add my own: don't use Locktite in a lock... trust me.

Cheers

femurat,

I fully agree on NOT using Locktite. But there is a good chance that the pin that locks the dial to the dial shaft is gone and its unthreading. This is what is probably causing the dial to tighten and loose and cause in/out slop. Which also means that combo is changing every time it moves.



I would love an expert alternative to resolving this. My thought is that Id rather drill the dial than the door of the safe. Easier to repair/hide a drilled dial. I could always just machine a brand new dial. Or I can skip it and just drill the safe if the robot dialer doesn't work.

[billdeserthills]

Sorry but I'm not seeing how an autodialer could even work on a safe with a loose dial spindle
If you're trying to get lucky, you should be thinking about 'swiss cheese'


https://www.reddit.com/r/Locksmith/comm ... _cracking/

[MartinHewitt]

Plan A and B do IMHO not work. They both require that the drive cam operates the wheels, which it now does not reliably do. Plan C can't be discussed in this section.

[damonwill]

Sorry but I'm not seeing how an autodialer could even work on a safe with a loose dial spindle
If you're trying to get lucky, you should be thinking about 'swiss cheese'


https://www.reddit.com/r/Locksmith/comm ... _cracking/

From my testing of the dial, if I dial slowly, the two wheels are picked up in the same place. IF I dial too fast or not keep tension on the dial to prevent from going in, the dial seems to turn in the shaft and the wheels pickup in a different place. This may be a total waste of time, but I want to do all I can before its drilled. All it takes is some time....

[Squelchtone]

Sorry but I'm not seeing how an autodialer could even work on a safe with a loose dial spindle
If you're trying to get lucky, you should be thinking about 'swiss cheese'


https://www.reddit.com/r/Locksmith/comm ... _cracking/

From my testing of the dial, if I dial slowly, the two wheels are picked up in the same place. IF I dial too fast or not keep tension on the dial to prevent from going in, the dial seems to turn in the shaft and the wheels pickup in a different place. This may be a total waste of time, but I want to do all I can before its drilled. All it takes is some time....

You could always drill from the back into the safe and scope it so you don't feel like you ruined the door, but most holes into a door can be repaired so you barely notice any work was ever done. Drilling does not ruin the safe.

But I'm gonna stop myself there, because we try to limit the discussion of how/where to drill a safe in the public areas. No need to be accidentally teaching meth heads who have Google search how to open safes.

Squelchtone

[damonwill]

Copy that. Changing the subject.....

OK, simple question I hope. Here is the detailed guidance I've gotten on dialing:

If the combination is 10-20-30 this is how I would dial it:

No matter where the dial is at the dialing index, just start turning the dial Left (Counter-Clockwise)
Pass by 10 three times and stop on 10 the fourth time around

Change dialing direction and dial Right (Clockwise)
Pass by 20 two times and stop on 20 the third time around

Change dialing direction and dial Left (Counter-Clockwise)
Pass by 30 one time and stop by 30 the second time around

At this point the fence should have dropped into the wheel gates, change direction and dial Right (Clockwise) to retract the lock bolt and the dial should Stop and not allow you to turn it any further.

So my question is: what stops the fence from dropping the FIRST time you pass 30? You pass 30 one time and the stop the second. The drive cam is fixed to the dial so shouldn't the fence drop as soon as the dial hits 30 the first time? OR do you have to stop for some period of time to allow the fence time to stop??

Thanks!!

[MartinHewitt]

The fence never drops at 30. You just change direction at 30 and then e.g. around 5 the fence drops and continuing 15 numbers to 90 the lock is open. 10, 20 and 30 is encoded in the three code wheels. The final 5 is permanently set in the drive cam directly connected to the dial.

[damonwill]

The fence never drops at 30. You just change direction at 30 and then e.g. around 5 the fence drops and continuing 15 numbers to 90 the lock is open. 10, 20 and 30 is encoded in the three code wheels. The final 5 is permanently set in the drive cam directly connected to the dial.

Then perhaps I've been confused. I thought there was the possibility that I have a 2 wheel safe like the picture below:

I can only feel two wheels engage when I turn the dial.

You are saying I must have this one:

And one of my wheels either isn't engaging or I just can't feel it.

Is that correct?

[MartinHewitt]

Yours might have only two wheels. The locksmith might have fiddled with it and also early Victors could have only 2 wheels. These could have also 60-number dials. With only 2 wheels the first 10 of your dialling is missing. 3 R to 20, 2 L to 30, R to drop and R to stop.

[GWiens2001]

Both mastersmith and Gordon gave excellent suggestions.
I try to add my own: don't use Locktite in a lock... trust me.

Cheers

I cringed when he first suggested that.

I had to service a lock where the "locksmith" had put green Locktite onto the mortise cylinder chamber caps on a Medeco. That green stuff is very thin and designed to work its way down into the threads which are already in tight. Well, it did work its way into the threads, locking the set screw caps in place. And down into the pin channels, locking the pins in place. And around the plug, locking it in place in the housing. And partway alongside the sidebar. Yeah, that was locked in place, too.

So yeah, no Locktite in locks. Especially green stuff.

I was glad that he had only worked on that mortise cylinder at the front of a store. So the lock on the back door was functioning.

Gordon

[damonwill]

Not bad for spare parts I cobbled together. She only has to run for 4 weeks and is accurate to the 1/2 a tick mark on the dial..

GO baby GO!!!





And yes, feel free to laugh. I did when I first put her together.

[Squelchtone]

Who would possibly laugh? that's amazing!

Keep us posted, and thanks for following up.
Squelchtone

[femurat]

Impressive! Good luck and let us know how long it takes to open it.

I'd choose to test every increment, not half of it. Why doubling the opening time? Are you worried it may miss the number?

Cheers

[damonwill]

ITs accurate to the 1/2 tick mark but I'm testing every other. 0,0,0; 0,0,2; 0,0,4.....98, 98, 98. that's 125000 possible permutations. 3 weeks if the combo is 98, 98, 98

[GWiens2001]

Damonwill, thank you for the update and pics. Well done indeed.

Any chance you could email or PM me a parts list/wiring diagram so some of us can try making one?

Since this is a borderline bypass device, the specific info should not be put on the open forum. But if you get the info to myself, Squelchtone or Femurat, we can make a post (crediting you of course) in the advanced forums.

If you do not want it posted there, then perhaps you would be kind enough to at least email or PM me with the info so I can attempt making one. If not, I understand.

Gordon