Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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I have a 3 wheel friction fence Yale lock. I opened it up and the wheels have pins on the numbers 38-46-65, but those numbers don't seem to open the safe. (I also tried 65-46-38 and 38-46 increments to the left-65 increments to the right)
What do the numbers mean? Is there a formula to drive the combination from the wheel pin numbers?
Milly wrote:I have a 3 wheel friction fence Yale lock. I opened it up and the wheels have pins on the numbers 38-46-65, but those numbers don't seem to open the safe. (I also tried 65-46-38 and 38-46 increments to the left-65 increments to the right)
What do the numbers mean? Is there a formula to drive the combination from the wheel pin numbers?
A photo of your wheels would help us a lot so we do not give you the wrong advice for the wrong kind of wheel pack. I am not sure what you mean by "pins on the numbers" if the wheels are hand change, then there should be a line opposite the movable fly on each wheel which points to the number of the combination.
You may upload the photo to this image sharing site, and then paste the link it generates in your reply. https://imgbb.com/
If your safe wheels are what I think they are, this modern Mosler with plastic wheels uses the same principle:
Each wheel has a pin that can be moved between different holes. The pin catches the next wheel when spinning. The holes have numbers that I assume correspond with combination options because they are 1-100 (only 23 holes because they skip numbers).
Maybe you have only the wrong dialling direction. The final turn is left (CCW). The full sequence is at least the 4th time right to the first number, exactly the 3rd time left to the second number, exactly the 2nd time right to the third number and than a final left turn until it stops. This is the opposite of most of the descriptions found on yt.
It would really help for us to see a real photo of your wheel pack attached to the back cover, that way we can provide the most accurate advice on how to dial the safe open.
Did you take the stack of wheels apart to see what each wheel's "pin" was set to? Those wheels may have the numbers 1 2 and 3 stamped on them and it matters which order they are sandwiched back together in. What is the combination of the wheel you can see when you first remove the cover from the lock housing?
The wheel closest to the back cover plate the wheels are mounted to is the 1st number of your combination. The middle wheel is the 2nd number o of your combination, and the wheel you can fully see which sits on top of the other 2 wheels is the 3rd number of your combination. I see in your original post that you have tried the combination forwards anf backwards already. I have a safe with a Yale 0700 lock similar to the pin amd hole construction your wheels have and my combination is not exactly what the pins are set to. There is a little slop built in which was either by design or wear and tear over the years making the numbers slip a little in either direction.
Put the cover back on and dial the combination. Open the cover slowly and see if the 3 wheel gates (the cut out on the edge of each wheel) are aligned with each other or if 2 of the 3 are aligned, is one of them just a little off center? Is one or more gates 180 degrees out of whack compared to where the other gates are?
After you dial the 3 numbers, there will be a final additional turn as MartinHewitt already stated. That final turn allows the friction fence to fall into the aligned wheel gates, thus retracting the lock bolt.
Okay, let me give the WHOLE story because it's a little crazy and I think you'll appreciate it.
Husband got a locked Victor safe from a neighbor who got it from a friend who inherited it. As a pair of mechanical engineers, we decide we can become lovkpicks overnight. After days of research we conclude it is a friction fence, which is dishearteningly described as "formitable" by the national locksmiths guide to manipulation. Not exactly the ideal first safe.
Husband is out of town and I decide to take a stab at it. I determined the contact point to be 5. I'm about to start counting wheels by putting them all right, but decide instead that I should put them all left so I count wheels going to the right, which is less noisy on this type of fence. I stay putting them to the left and CLICK, the dial sticks! I freak out and die laughing as I turn the handle and open the safe. Nothing valuable inside, but whoah what a rush. Then I had the task of figuring out what the heck happened. Turns out, when you put the wheels all right, they line up most of the way! So I just had the crazy luck of stopping at the right number (60) and reversing directions. I couldn't figure out thr actual combination though. My father in law and husband tinker through the night with it and move the pins to numbers that actually work, restoring the safe to a 3 number combination (instead of the one number). They then determine through much trial and error removing and checking gates, that the following combination will now open it: 37-31-56 while the wheel pins are set to the following numbers: 38-49-46. So the numbers kinda line up with the safe combo, but way too far off to be useful.
The wheels are in the correct numbers order and we are using the prescribed number of rotations.
I can't figure out the image upload. It looks like I need to set up an account with them. Hopefully knowing the model number and seeing the diagrams is sufficient.
Milly wrote:Okay, let me give the WHOLE story because it's a little crazy and I think you'll appreciate it.
Husband got a locked Victor safe from a neighbor who got it from a friend who inherited it. As a pair of mechanical engineers, we decide we can become lockpicks overnight. After days of research we conclude it is a friction fence, which is dishearteningly described as "formidable" by the national locksmiths guide to manipulation. Not exactly the ideal first safe.
Husband is out of town and I decide to take a stab at it. I determined the contact point to be 5. I'm about to start counting wheels by putting them all right, but decide instead that I should put them all left so I count wheels going to the right, which is less noisy on this type of fence. I stay putting them to the left and CLICK, the dial sticks! I freak out and die laughing as I turn the handle and open the safe. Nothing valuable inside, but whoah what a rush.
Then I had the task of figuring out what the heck happened. Turns out, when you put the wheels all right, they line up most of the way! So I just had the crazy luck of stopping at the right number (60) and reversing directions. I couldn't figure out the actual combination though.
My father in law and husband tinker through the night with it and move the pins to numbers that actually work, restoring the safe to a 3 number combination (instead of the one number). They then determine through much trial and error removing and checking gates, that the following combination will now open it: 37-31-56 while the wheel pins are set to the following numbers: 38-49-46. So the numbers kinda line up with the safe combo, but way too far off to be useful.
The wheels are in the correct numbers order and we are using the prescribed number of rotations.
I can't figure out the image upload. It looks like I need to set up an account with them. Hopefully knowing the model number and seeing the diagrams is sufficient.
Crazy story right?! I mean it just opened!
That is a great story, thank you for sharing it! Congratulations, this could have been a much bigger project if the safe was locked with no hint of what the combination might be.
Setting all the wheels to one number is something people do occasionally, not common, but have seen it done before. A lot of bank vaults are set to 50-50-50 when they are retired so that if someone gets locked in them, and they call the fire department or a local safe technician or locksmith, they might know enough to try that exact combination.
https://imgbb.com allows you to click "Start Uploading" button in middle of screen and select a file right from your computer and upload it. select Don't Autodelete, and click Upload and the imgbb.com website creates shareable links. no account needed. Drop down and copy the BBCode Full Linked forum friendly link and copy/paste it here.
You may want to check the numbers stamped on your wheels and make sure they are not in the wrong order, that might explain the weird offset you have on wheels 2 and 3. The wheels may be in other arrangements. 1-Example: 1-2-3, 3-2-1, 1-3-2, 2-1-3, etc. You may notice that on 2 of the wheels the numbers stamped into them go clockwise, and on one wheel the numbers count up counter-clockwise.
