Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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I got a Major brand floor safe. Came without the back plate. I determined the combo, but there's an issue w the relocker bar (see yellow arrow). You'll recall that the relocker is normally held down by the back plate. If a thief tries a punch attack through the mechanism, the back cover would be knocked off and the mechanism immobilized.
In mine, the relocker bar won't move. I can't press it down. It's fixed, immobile, w some abrasions on the top like it's been abused. There's a collar style bushing on the relocker bar, and bushing will move, but that doesn't free up the lock.
How can I either fix the relocker, or remove it entirely?
The pin does not go down. The big hat shaped washer under the bolt plate has a spring under it and should go down. The part attached to the cover plate is a hollow tube that fits over the pin to push the relocker washer down. The hollow tube does not have to be attached. It can just slip over the pin and push down the washer. The pin can come up to, or through, the hole in the cover plate.
If you still want to remove the relocker, take everything off down to under the bolt plate and remove the spring and washer.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
The safe head is currently in storage near Milford, MA so I can't get photos of the other side for at least a few days, but it looks pretty much like yours.
We can figure out a place to meet, Marlboro MA is convenient for me, not sure if you are near Route 9, or 495.
Raymond, Thanks for that info. Yes, it's just as you described; a spring loaded hat washer. I tried pushing the pin down with a screwdriver, but the mechanism was still locked. Perhaps I wasn't effective. I'll get a hollow tube and try it again. I'll let you know the results.
Squelchtone, Before posting here, I found your video on youtube, and recognized your signature as a frequent poster on Lockpick101. I was hoping you'd respond. I'll send you a message.
If you can get a pair of vise grips locked tight on that relock center pin, it will pull straight out and then you can remove the relocker without having to take the whole lid apart. Maybe give it a few sideways taps with a hammer and punch first to loosen it up. Its just knurled and press fit into the hole.
Originally, the fence stop pin and relocker pin were made to be tapped out from the top of the lid after drilling a hole in a specific place using a template. The template was coded and tracked by the factory by the serial number. It was designed for less safe oriented people to be able to do effective openings.
Sammy, Thanks for the info on removing the relocker. Interesting that the factory actually had drill templates available for non-locksmiths. I should be able to get the relocker functioning again, with the help of forum members. Now, removal will be my last ditch step. Joe
I spoke too soon, I no longer have the Major safe head, the one I do have is from a Cary safe with an S&G 6700 lock on it. I have sent you a PM with some helpful information and photos regarding that back cover plate and snap ring.
sign216 wrote:Sammy, Thanks for the info on removing the relocker. Interesting that the factory actually had drill templates available for non-locksmiths. I should be able to get the relocker functioning again, with the help of forum members. Now, removal will be my last ditch step. Joe
The "template" was a cardboard circle (Back in the 1970's) that aligned with a number on the dial to give you the relocker and fence stop pin locations. I have one laying around in a box someplace. They never got used much since Major was in LA and on the east coast, you couldnt call them til noon.
MartinHewitt, You prob right, the templates must have been for locksmiths w little/no safe experience (rather than for homeowners). First time drilling into a safe must have been tough.
Squelchtone, Your emailed info was terrific! Thanks for sending me a pic of the back plate. I've seen a couple of Major safes missing the back plate, so it must be common to lose when people play w the mechanism. And ... thanks for the search term "internal single turn spiral retaining ring." Turns out that's exactly when industry calls the retaining clip for the plate, so I can order it.
Sammy, Thanks for that bit of history. I've heard that Major got bought out decades ago, so those templates must have value for all the Major floor safes lurking, unseen and forgotten, in homes and businesses.
It's not the re-locker that holding the mechanism. It feels like the mechanism is being held internally.
I got a rolled tension pin to slip over the re-locker's rod and depress the "hat," taking the re-locker out of the equation.
When I dial the combo I devised, the slots in the wheels line up. I rotate the dial, and the fence/lever drops down and engages the drive cam. But then the drive cam won't turn. Something is holding it fast.
I looked at the bolts and the outer baseplate that drives them, but that appears free. The hold is on the drive cam itself.
Sammy, Later I'll try turning it w two hands; one on dial, one on cam, to get a sense of it. That's a good idea.
I've already put pressure on the bolts, but they aren't under tension. I.e. they and the plate that drives them are loose. It's binding somewhere else.
The unit looks clean, but congealed grease still might be an issue. I may flood the mechanism w Kroil just to wash away old grease.
sign216 wrote:Sammy, Later I'll try turning it w two hands; one on dial, one on cam, to get a sense of it. That's a good idea.
I've already put pressure on the bolts, but they aren't under tension. I.e. they and the plate that drives them are loose. It's binding somewhere else.
The unit looks clean, but congealed grease still might be an issue. I may flood the mechanism w Kroil just to wash away old grease.
Joe
These always had an issue with the fence stop pin being put back in after an opening using the template I mentioned earlier. Make sure its not binding there. If somebody dropped the lid in the tube with the bolts out it may cause this.
Not knowing the history, there may have been an issue and thats why somebody stopped using it.
With two hands, on the dial + cam, did not budge it. It seems that it's being held up solid beneath the cam. The main plate holding the locking bolts is not under tension.
Washed mechanism w Kroil penetrating oil. Did not loosen it.
I'm going to cautiously start taking it apart. Is there anything that's going to fly apart, and be a problem to re-assemble?
I bought this without the back cover, thinking the lost combo was the only issue. Maybe the issue is larger....
Joe
Edit: I might be wrong; I can see the main cam plate is bearing against one bolt, and that may be a sticking point. The bolts are free when touched, but maybe they're reluctant to move when cammed . Two of the bolt pins are staked in place, and one is free to slip out. Tomorrow I'll forced out the two staked pins and remove the bolts. See what happens.
Major Brand Floor Safe by sign216, on Flickr [/image]
Arrow on Relocker by sign216, on Flickr[/image]
