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Victor Canon ball safe

Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
Forum rules
You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.

Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.

If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.

Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 4 Jan 2022 0:06

I recently picked up an old Victor Canon ball safe . It was missing the time lock clock, but it came with a combination but I can't get it to work. Was wondering if anyone could help?
Trex123004
 
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Joined: 3 Jan 2022 23:07
Location: Nebraska

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Squelchtone » 7 Jan 2022 8:10

Hi,

Could you share some photos of the whole safe, the door, and just the combination dial up close (instructions for uploading/sharing photos are on the left side in the blue menu)? it would help us to see the model you have so we can provide the correct instructions.

How are you dialing it open now? are you turning 4 times to the Left or Right, then 3 times, then 2 times etc?

Does it feel like the lock is open, but the door wont open? sometimes surface rust can make it seem like a safe is locked.

How many numbers is your combination? Are you sure it is the combination for *this* safe?

Thanks,
Squelchtone
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Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 7 Jan 2022 17:34

Trex123004
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 3 Jan 2022 23:07
Location: Nebraska

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 7 Jan 2022 17:37

Trex123004
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 3 Jan 2022 23:07
Location: Nebraska

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby MartinHewitt » 7 Jan 2022 19:33

Do you have the combination and don't know how to use it? Or do you first need to find out the combination?
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Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby 00247 » 8 Jan 2022 5:31

Combination is L-R-L-R to stop.

Can you dial the combination or will the dial not turn?

If the dial turns then the door was rotated (while open) to the closed position and the dial was turned locking the door rotation.

If the dial does not turn then your door will rotate with the crank.

Both scenarios assume that one one was inside the door to mess things up or that there is a lock problem.

If you cannot get the combination to work the door cover can be removed to gain access to the lock or look for other problems. If the door rotates, screw it into the body close to the fully closed position. It probably won't close all the way until the mating surfaces are cleaned and polished. Then remove the lock screws on the door pivot bolts, back off the door pivot bolts to clear the cover and swing the door cradle away, remove the 4 bolts that secure the door cover and remove the cover. It's heavy and may have to be jiggled to get it off, don't drop it. Watch the small pinion gear that the crank goes on so it doesn't fall out. You then can access the lock. Here is the inside of the door.

Image

If your door will not rotate you have a bigger challenge. You will have to rig the door somehow to hold it securely so that the cradle can be removed to allow the door cover removal. Be careful, the door is very heavy. I modified an engine stand to support the door when I had no option but to remove the door from a Victor cannonball.

Image

When disassembling the door removed from the safe you have to be careful to keep the timing of the ring and pinion gears correct. There may be timing marks that can be aligned but one I had apart simply had a mark showing the top of the door when in closed position. There is a slotted keyed washer on the pinion shaft that must be aligned then the door is closed for the lock bolt to slide into.

Image

One other thing to verify before ever fully closing any cannonball or screw door safe that has an internal time lock: make sure the tripping mechanism will not auto lock when the time lock is disabled or missing. It shouldn't be a problem on a Victor but is on a Mosler. You do not want to here a death click upon closing the door. :shock:

If you remove the door pay attention to the height of the door in the cradle so that you can get it adjusted back close to the original position. Once you get it close enough to fit the opening there is a process to adjust these doors for final fit.
You call that a safe? Let me show you a real safe...
00247
 
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Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 8 Jan 2022 10:39

It came with a combination but its not the right one. So I will be having to remove the door to remove the cover to get to the lock . Thanks for the info and some good ideas. Haven't decided if im gonna look for a replacement timelock or not.
Trex123004
 
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Joined: 3 Jan 2022 23:07
Location: Nebraska

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 27 Jan 2022 7:05

I've got the cover off the safe door just like the picture below. but im not certain on how to figure out the combination when I get the cover off. Any help would be appreciated.
Trex123004
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 3 Jan 2022 23:07
Location: Nebraska

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby MartinHewitt » 27 Jan 2022 8:38

If you do remove the round part from the lock after removing one or two screws (might require a slight turn after removing screws) you can proceed as shown here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6L_jQJRQXQ

Remember the sequence of the parts when you disassemble it.
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Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 27 Jan 2022 13:47

The lock i have isn't like the one in the video.
Trex123004
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 3 Jan 2022 23:07
Location: Nebraska

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby MartinHewitt » 27 Jan 2022 15:36

Do you have a photo?
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Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 28 Jan 2022 7:21

I have not taken one ill have to do that and try and upload it.
Trex123004
 
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Location: Nebraska

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby 00247 » 28 Jan 2022 10:00

It should be a variation of the S&G lock I previously posted. Remove the two small screws that hold the round shiny wheel pack. I forget if you have to twist this model slightly. Wiggle it and the wheel pack assembly will come out.

Image

Image

As you can see, once the wheel pack is disassembled you will know the combination. Disassembly is straight forward, but make sure you methodically place the parts in order of removal to not mix anything up. Take pictures or make notes of each step depending on your mechanical abilities. Clean all parts thoroughly. I would assemble it dry as it is all brass.

You can note the combination number on each wheel and use it or change the number on each wheel to what you want. Remove the cover of the lock to clean all parts and make sure the fence spring is intact. I would also pull the spline key and remove the drive wheel and spindle for cleaning and lubrication. Your lock could be slightly different inside than this one. It is possible that the lock will use a change key. Later Victor cannonballs did, so post some pictures of your lock and internals. Also post a picture of the door threads. That will help date the safe.

After assembly of the lock, test the combo a gazillion times while the door cover is still off.

Image
You call that a safe? Let me show you a real safe...
00247
 
Posts: 102
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Location: Wisconsin

Re: Victor Canon ball safe

Postby Trex123004 » 28 Jan 2022 10:25

Mine only has 1 screw and it looks nothing like that.
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Posts: 9
Joined: 3 Jan 2022 23:07
Location: Nebraska

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