Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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Hello fine people! This is a great forum, and I've learned a lot.
I acquired an old, two-door Cary safe when I bought a building recently. It weighs over a ton. I have the combination:
L4 - 80 R3 - 15 L2 - 60 R - 91
I worked for hours trying to open this thing, and then a friend came over the other day and sat down in front of it and opened it in less than a minute. He was doing just what I had been doing. 1. Left at least 4 times, stopping at 80 2. Right, stopping on 15 the third time you come to it 3. Left, stopping on 60 the second time you come to it 4. Right until the dial stops
It was amazing inside. They beautiful, locking mahogany drawers. Flowery carpet. Maroon with gold pin-striping. Amazing.
So... we closed and locked it.
Now neither one of us can open it. We're doing exactly the same thing that he did the first time, but nada.
Is it possible that it didn't close properly? Maybe it needs lubricated with graphite or something? I'm at a loss, and despondent now that I've seen how pretty it is inside.
I'd love to get it open and get it working again. Any suggestions? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also if there's a safe tech in northeastern Nevada that wants to come help me open it, I'd gladly pay. I know it will open. I saw the inside just this morning.
showing the drive wheel, with the combination wheels removed
Seeing the combination wheels turning and aligning the gate in each wheel to accept the friction fence
Have you tried clearing the lock by just dialing Left at least 5 or 6 times all the way around, and then dialing the combination? when you dial the combination and then turn back to around 91 where the dial should stop you from turning it, wiggle the dial back and fourth sharply between 95 and 85 a few times and see if the friction fence enters the wheel gates.
There's a chance one of your wheels has some slip in it and it may open better if you dial one of the numbers off a bit, so if your combination is 80-15-60, with last turn to 91, try dialing in 81-15-60 or 79-15-60, or vary the other numbers by trying 80-14-60, 80-16-60, or 80-15-59, 80-15-61.
I hope 00247 (and others as well) sees this and can offer some troubleshooting tips, Squelchtone
Is it a 3- or 4-wheel lock? So is 91 really the stopping point or the last wheel? Maybe you think this was the dialling direction and it really was the inverse L/R sequence?
MartinHewitt wrote:Is it a 3- or 4-wheel lock? So is 91 really the stopping point or the last wheel? Maybe you think this was the dialling direction and it really was the inverse L/R sequence?
It appears this safe model was available with the 3 or 4 wheel combination Yale lock. In the videos above 00247's lock happens to be a 4 wheel but I had the same thought as you until I checked another source showing the lock was available with 3 wheels as well)
gmichaelson wrote:You turn right until stop (instead of the 91) according to the guy that opened it that one time.
Any chance you can make us a youtube video of you dialing the safe with a close of on the dial and handle (doesnt need to show people in the video, just the dial honestly) so we can critique it and see if there is anything obvious that sticks out to us?
Does the dial stop after the combination is dialed in, or does it never come to a dead stop?
Is the door handle next to the dial pointing down to 6 o'clock? does it have any move in it at all?
How about the left door handle? is it also pointing down to 6 o'clock exactly?
Are both doors pushed in all the way?
Does anything happen if you lean into the door and then wiggle the door handle left and right? Perhaps something is binding or rubbing somewhere in the doors bolt work.
Try clearing the lock by dialing 10 times around Right (Clockwise), then dial the combination as you have done in the past.
When the guy opened it that one time, the dial did indeed catch and "lock" on the last number as shown in the video that you posted. When we try the combination now, it just never comes to a stop.
There's about 1/4 inch of play in the right handle (that is used to open the safe). It is pointed straight down at 6 o'clock.
The left handle is also pointed straight down, but you can move it left and right to lock and unlock the left door (it's stiff, but the handle still moves). The left door, though, is behind the right door, so it won't open.
I'm about 1/3 of the way through testing all the possible combinations within 2 numbers of the right numbers. There are over a hundred of them. So I just go until my thumb starts to chafe. Haha.
When I turn it to the left to clear it before I start, I can hear the 3 clicks for each disc catching. It rotates counterclockwise very smoothly and you can feel a slight clicking, but turning it to the right is a little crunchier and doesn't have the soothing click click click feel to it.
Next time I'm out there, I will make a youtube video of me trying it. Maybe I'm doing something stupid. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
A sticking fly can ruin your day. Often on old safes the lubricant used becomes gummy, and the flies don't move as freely as they should, especially if you're dialing slowly. Try turning the dial a little more aggressively, with quick jerks. But not so aggressively that you risk damaging anything.
The old locks had just pins of both sides of the code wheels to transfer the rotation. The problem with this is, that there are unusable combinations as these fixed pin create a dead space. In the modern lock produced since the end of the 19th century there is usually a ring with a pin on one side of the wheel. This ring can slightly turn and that makes it possible to use all numbers on the wheel. At least theoretical. Gordon showed a disassembly of a really modern lock in this posing: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=62460 In the photos where he disassembled the wheel pack you can see these flies. When one of these flies stick to the associated wheel (Edit: because of sticky oil/grease) the codes of the wheels behind it (responsible for the leading combination numbers) shift lightly, but enough to prevent an opening. An experienced safe tech can feel if such a situation is there and can try to adjust the supposed combination to one which will then work.
First I will rub salt in your wound and remind all newbies to never participate in the cardinal sin of closing the door and locking a safe until you are sure the lock is working satisfactory, preferably serviced, and that you are are confident with the dialing procedure. Lock the door with the door open and practice.
Squelchy and Martin have given you good advise. I will add a picture of the lock internal parts with the fly that each wheel has circled. It is able to slide back and forth in that slot to compensate for rotational direction. They are generally reliable in this style lock but never say never, there could be an issue. The fact that the dial feels differently when turning clockwise tells me the friction fence is operating and being forced into the wheel pack/drive wheel. If these locks have a lot of use the drive wheel could have wear which will give the feeling you describe. The friction fence usually won't cause a problem especially this style that has the internal spring sealed in with crimps on each end.
Dialing a little more forceful could move a sticking fly. Watch the video with just the drive wheel and notice how much movement there is (estimate how many numbers) from when the drive wheel gate allows the friction fence to turn in to where the dial stops. If your had dial stopped at 91 the time it opened then back up that distance plus a little more and work it back and forth and hope the wheels jiggle a little and the fence turns in. The suggestion of dialing with one number high then low and trying all of them one at a time is a good one.
These are pretty good locks, there could be an internal issue but first I would eliminate possible operator error.
You call that a safe? Let me show you a real safe...
