Herring Hall Marvin with Stuck Dial

[dau1618]

My dad has an old Herring Hall Marvin safe that he has used for years without any issues. But yesterday he had trouble closing the safe and now both the T-handle and dial are stuck. The door is stuck closed. The T-handle is stuck at an odd angle. The dial moves between 23 and 28. The last digit of the combination is 29.

Any ideas on how to free this up?

[MartinHewitt]

The lock should still be unlocked. Could something be wedged into the door's gap?

[dau1618]

The door seems fully closed and locked shut. The T handle does not rotate in either direction from its current position.

[dau1618]

Do you know of any online resource {drawings, videos, images} that would show me what is going on inside? I'd like to better understand how the mechanism works.

[MartinHewitt]

I don't know this safe, but HHM chests usually have two bolt on the opening side. I would try to get things loose with a rubber mallet and if not successful and possible tilt it to the right side, so that bolts have an incentive to move to the opening position. But force can make things worse with safes. So I recommend to wait a bit longer for other opinions of people who have possibly seen similar safes.

[00247]

Did he close the door and while he was turning the handle it stuck? If that's the case I would lean towards Martin's idea of something caught in the door jamb holding the door ever so slightly out and the bolt work stuck due to interference. I would feel the left side of the door to see if it is higher even the slightest bit. Perhaps a document flopped over, an extra wad of $100 bills fell, or there are simply too many gold bricks stuffed inside. I would have someone keep opening pressure on the handle while a piece of wood or something protects the paint and whack the door in to see if the bolt work pops to the open position. The fact that the dial is turning those few numbers tells me the fence is in the gate of the drive wheel partially.


BUT, if he turned the handle only partially closed and it jambed after he was able to turn the lock a revolution or so, you have a bigger problem. I think this lock will be a gravity fence that tips into the gates of the wheel pack at the bottom of the lock. A piece attached to the bolt work slides under the lock and is blocked when the fence is held down by a scrambled wheel pack. When the gates are aligned the heavy end of the fence pivots down raising the lock end of the fence into the gates so that the bolt work can side under it. With the bolt work slid partially over one could conceivable force the dial around if the fence is just barely into the gates. Hopefully he didn't do that and it should be unlikely as the dial would have turned with resistance.

I am currently working on a HHM safe an will add a picture of the wheel pack and spindle assembly. This lock has the drive wheel closest to the dial. I have a video of the lock in action but will have to upload it to Youtube later. That is a challenge as the internet speed is poor here.

Of course, your lock could be a different model. Maybe someone else knows. Either way I would explore with some force on the door. Be gentle with the handle, you don't want to break it and compound your problems.

[00247]

Here is the video of the bolt work extension as it moves to the lock and the fence in the HHM safe. I misspoke about it being a pivoting gravity fence. The fence is actually moved up and down by the extension. I still feel there is probably interference from door fitment but one cannot rule out another issue with the bolt work. In this safe the bolt work and the lock case are encased inside the door by a casting and the insulation mortar. Again, I have no idea if your chest is made in the same way. I seem to recall a chest like that with the folding handle that was inside a larger safe. The folding handle was required for clearance for the safe door to close.

[dau1618]

Martin, you are a genius. The door was ever so slightly pushed out on the left end. A few hammer taps and then pressing on the door while turning the T handled worked. Once it was open we found a plastic envelope had its corner in the jamb near the hinge. Thanks for your help on this one.

[Squelchtone]

Martin, you are a genius. The door was ever so slightly pushed out on the left end. A few hammer taps and then pressing on the door while turning the T handled worked. Once it was open we found a plastic envelope had its corner in the jamb near the hinge. Thanks for your help on this one.

dau1618, don't forget 00247 for sharing his nice photos and videos on how the mechanism works. If that plastic envelope had any wads of $100 dollar bills in it, you have to give one to him.

I would honestly like the see the handle, is it supposed to be folded down like that all the time, or do you pull it up, use it to open/close the safe, and then you fold it down or is it loose enough where gravity makes it flop down? Could we see a photo with the handle extended?

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[00247]

Great, glad it has opened.

Instead of that $100 bill, take the rear door cover off and take a picture of the lock for us. Pull the wheel pack and take a picture of that too. Even of the bolt work so that we all come away from this a little smarter by knowing what set up in in one of these chests. With it apart, now would be the perfect time to clean and service the lock so that you don't have to come back with a lock problem.