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Question about binding order changing CW vs CCW

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
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Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Question about binding order changing CW vs CCW

Postby Shinoya » 30 Jul 2022 8:18

Hi,

I just watched this video explaining the binding order.
When he picks clockwise the order is 12345.
When he picks counter clockwise the order is 34521.

What I don't understand is why the binding order isn't reversed when picking counter clockwise, as in why it isn't 54321

If someone could explain this it will be much help :)
The question was asked in the comments but not answered.

Clockwise at 2:50 in the video.
Counter clockwise at 4:35 in the video.
Video --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkps2LIZc5g
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Re: Question about binding order changing CW vs CCW

Postby Squelchtone » 30 Jul 2022 10:08

Hello and thank you for your question.

Each chamber hole is drilled with slightly different tolerances, so the left wall of the pin chamber is not the same geometry and shape as the right vertical wall of the pin chamber. Meaning that the binding order is not an exact mirror along a central axis, so the binding order is bound (no pun intended) to be completely different depending which way you apply rotational force on the plug.

Here's a photo showing some manufacturing imperfections in the geometry and tolerances of each pin chamber hole that is drilled into the plug:

Image

Squelchone
Image
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Re: Question about binding order changing CW vs CCW

Postby Shinoya » 30 Jul 2022 10:39

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that the holes are never perfectly in line, which causes a binding order, but still don't understand how his order changed from 12345 (CW) to 34521 (CCW) instead of 54321 (the exact opposite of CW binding order).

Say for example there are three pins and you're picking CW:
- Pin 1 hole is furthest to the right, so will bind first.
- Pin 2 hole is next furthest so will bind second.
- Then pin 3.
Now if tension is CCW I can't picture why the order wouldn't be 321 since pin 3 is furthest to the left.

Are you able to explain a bit further please?
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Re: Question about binding order changing CW vs CCW

Postby GWiens2001 » 30 Jul 2022 19:05

It can also change based on how you tension the lock (Top of Keyway or Bottom of Keyway) as well as the depth to which the tension wrench reaches into the keyway and how snugly the tension wrench fits.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: Question about binding order changing CW vs CCW

Postby Cyberhagen » 27 Sep 2023 9:16

If I may, I believe another reason the binding order isn’t perfectly reversed is due to the fact that not only is the alignment of the pin chambers a factor, but also the pin chambers themselves are not likely to be perfectly circular, round, or smooth; if there are any small manufacturing deviations, or even wear, it can cause a chamber to be slightly oblong, also affecting the binding order.
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Re: Question about binding order changing CW vs CCW

Postby Kaesekopf » 27 Sep 2023 15:50

One other cause is that holes drilled the same diameter may not always work out to be the same diameter. This and the above differences can add up
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