Help identify this old safe

[jrt5903]

I just bought a really old safe and know nothing about it except that it’s dang heavy and it still works. It does have a Yale dial and brass handle is stamped “6421”. It is on steel rollers and the door is 5” thick. Did I mention that it’s heavy?

Looking for any information or resources that anyone has to share.
Thanks in advance.

[Squelchtone]

Hello,

That's a nice old safe! Could we ask you post a few more photos that show what the door looks like open? Those features are often helpful IN identifying the safe maker.

Parts of the door look like a Herring safe, but the dial and dial location don't match a Herring..

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[jrt5903]

[jrt5903]

[Squelchtone]

ok, I'm gonna lean towards Farrel or Farrel Herring

The drawer with the 2 pulls and key in the upper middle, the rectangular door bolts, and the little nipple in the middle of the door are leading me that way.

Here's one for comparison:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-steel-safe-floor-safe-1800s-406667006

[Squelchtone]

If your safe is a Herring or Herring Farrel, here is some company history you could potentially use:

source: https://www.justanswer.com/antiques/73yiv-1871-farrell-company-safe.html

FARREL SAFE COMPANY (1852 to 1869), Philadelphia, PA
Also known as Farrel & Company, or Farrel Safe Works
Founder John Farrel

HERRING SAFE COMPANY 1844-1869 (Herring-Farrel 1869-1885), 1885-1892 NY, NY
Silas Herring became interested in Wilder Safes around 1840-1841. He became an agent for Wilder and later a manufacture. By 1844 Wilder Safes were made under patent by Herring.

HERRING-FARREL SAFES, 1869-1885, Philadelphia, PA and New York, NY
1861 Merger, but kept names separate until 1869.
Joined between 1869-1885, but the two factories remained in Philadelphia and New York. Safes that came from the New York factory were “Herring-Farrel” and safes from Philadelphia factory were Farrel-Herring Safes.
1856 Philadelphia Directory listing for “Farrels & Herring” under Salamander safes, noting “Herring, S.F., 34 Walnut.
Note: It appears that Silas F. Herring and John Farrel had business arrangements prior to the 1861 merger, and they may have used the “Farrels & Herring” logo, much earlier than the 1969 date.

FARREL–HERRING SAFE COMPANY 1869-1885, Philadelphia, PA
1861 merger between Herring & Farrel, but they kept the names separate until 1869. The two factories remained in Philadelphia and New York. Safes manufactured at the Philadelphia plant were labeled as Farrel-Herring and safes manufactured at the New York plant were labeled as Herring-Farrel.

In 1885, the concerns were consolidated under the Herring label, though some safes were still labeled as Farrel occassionally. In 1892, the Herring Safe & Lock Company, including the Farrel Safe works, merged with "Hall's Safe & Lock Company" and the "Marvin Safe Company", to form "Herring-Hall-Marvin Safe Company". HHM lasted until they were acquired by Diebold in 1959. During a subsequent "anti-monopoly" suit brought against Diebold, they were ordered to close down or sell HHM and the York Safe company.

Ok, now you have a brief history of the safe companies. If your safe has the Farrel-Herring logo on the Castor supports, the safe would be from the 1869-1885 period.

Reading about Herring's connection to Wilder safes, take a look at the front door of this Wilder, https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-wilder-patent-knob-dated-june-1874515598 the bits are in the same locations and the pocket door look feels the same as well as the hinges. I wonder if your safe was influenced by the Wilder's Salamander, would love to see the inside of your door panel if you could remove it to show us the bolt work and lock mechanism.

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[jrt5903]

Well, I can’t get the back off, just yet. Someone in the past cross threaded one of the screws and it’s gonna take some work to get it out without causing further damage.
I did remove the back of the lock and get a look at that and I got a picture of the “ears” (for lack of a better term, on hinge side of door that engage the frame.

[jrt5903]

upload pic

[jrt5903]

[MartinHewitt]

This type of construction is quite old. I had a look through my books and nothing really fits. Maybe you will find something helpful after you removed the door cover. The lock might be a Yale 026.

[jrt5903]

I should have taken a photo of the gates. It has 3, if that’s of any help.

[GWiens2001]

Beware of asbestos.

Gordon

[jrt5903]

I’m glad you are the asbestos comment. I’d thought / wondered about that.

[Squelchtone]

I should have taken a photo of the gates. It has 3, if that’s of any help.

In this case, the lock wont help us identify the safe maker. Think of the lock on a safe in the same terms of a car and a car radiio. You could be driving a Chevy, but the radio is made by Kenwood, JBL, or Pioneer. Safes do this as well, and Yale was one of the biggest safe lock makers back in that time period.

[jrt5903]

I was afraid of that. When I get the back of door off I’ll submit photos for your guys to review. Your insights have already got me really curious and now I find myself looking for old safe this and that all the time. You’ve helped me begin to discover a whole new (old) world that I find fascinating. If only I had room for more of these things…