Mosler Safe within a safe

[Rasty]

I have an old Mosler safe circa 1889. Its about 4' tall x 3' wide x 2' deep. It has a small safe within the safe, about 1' square. I have the combination to the main door, and it appears to be one of the "factory" numbers that came with the safe, according to what I've read on the internet and this site. I do not have the combination to the small safe, nor do I even know how to open it if i did, as it appears that I need to turn the door once I figure out the combination. Does anyone know how this safe inside the safe functions to open it?

[MartinHewitt]

Hi, I can't look at the photos, because the links point only to the the main imgbb page and not to a photo. Could you check this please.

[MartinHewitt]

Regarding your photos, there is a description: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60483

Regarding the photos you sent me: I have the feeling that this safe was made later than 1889. The chest door has two plates on it. What do they say? Are there patent number on one of them? The newest number provides a terminus post quem. E.g. patent 2048195 is from 1935. You can go to https://patents.google.com and search there with US (for US patent) followed by the highest number on the sticker. From what I see I think it is one of the many locks made by Mosler which Oldfast calls flipper fence lock. Most (or all?) of them open the other way round than what is normal, i.e. with a final turn to the left. So you might want to try the combo for the main door in the other direction, but the lock on the main door had also a final turn left to stop? I am not aware of any lock specific default combinations. Combination worth checking are all 50 (4 times on direction to 50, then reverse and hope it opens), 50-25-50 (especially for government safes), 10-20-30, 20-30-40, 20-40-60. If this doesn't help then I see two options. The easy way is to get a safe tech to open the lock. You can find a list on http://www.savta.org/savta_tech.php . The second option is to try "safe lock manipulation". You will find about this topic quite a few video on youtube and there are also some PDFs out there. This will require a lot time to learn and patience.

Just to be sure here is an instruction how to open a combination lock in the normal manner with final turn to right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEYjgOFKR1U

[Rasty]

I tried the factory settings numbers but didn’t have any luck. I reviewed the list of locksmiths you sent, and there’s one about 10 miles away, so I will give him a call in the near future.
I found a list of patents on the inside of the main door and the most recent was 1939, so it’s 50 years newer than I thought!
Thank you very much for your help.
Rasty

[MartinHewitt]

When you ask for a price tell him you want it fully functional and not just open. And if it is important for you that the lock and dial stays original tell him that you want to keep using it.

Have fun with your safe and please lets us know how the story continues.

[ldj]

Regarding your photos, there is a description: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60483

Regarding the photos you sent me: I have the feeling that this safe was made later than 1889. The chest door has two plates on it. What do they say? Are there patent number on one of them? The newest number provides a terminus post quem. E.g. patent 2048195 is from 1935. You can go to https://patents.google.com and search there with US (for US patent) followed by the highest number on the sticker. From what I see I think it is one of the many locks made by Mosler which Oldfast calls flipper fence lock. Most (or all?) of them open the other way round than what is normal, i.e. with a final turn to the left. So you might want to try the combo for the main door in the other direction, but the lock on the main door had also a final turn left to stop? I am not aware of any lock specific default combinations. Combination worth checking are all 50 (4 times on direction to 50, then reverse and hope it opens), 50-25-50 (especially for government safes), 10-20-30, 20-30-40, 20-40-60. If this doesn't help then I see two options. The easy way is to get a safe tech to open the lock. You can find a list on http://www.savta.org/savta_tech.php . The second option is to try "safe lock manipulation". You will find about this topic quite a few video on youtube and there are also some PDFs out there. This will require a lot time to learn and patience.

Just to be sure here is an instruction how to open a combination lock in the normal manner with final turn to right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEYjgOFKR1U

More info on using these combinations to try to open

[Squelchtone]

More info on using these combinations to try to open

What kind of info are you looking for? How to dial the lock? Which other factory combinations to try? Please be a little more specific, it helps us give you better answers.

Thank you,

Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

More info on using these combinations to try to open

What kind of info are you looking for? How to dial the lock? Which other factory combinations to try? Please be a little more specific, it helps us give you better answers.

Thank you,

Squelchtone

It was said to try this "Combination worth checking are all 50 (4 times on direction to 50, then reverse and hope it opens), 50-25-50 (especially for government safes), 10-20-30, 20-30-40, 20-40-60." I don't understand. Would these numbers be used just like dialing a regular combination? My dial in the enter safe looks newer, maybe been replaced. Also that enter safe door has a lots of bolts, If I take them out will that come out with the lock?

https://ibb.co/ZHJLY2D


https://i.ibb.co/wJL0wcm/IMG-20230731-141443651.jpg

[MartinHewitt]

The dialling of this lock is like explained in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEYjgOFKR1U

All 50 means dialling at least the 4th time to 50 counter clockwise (=left) and then turn right. If it stops on its own before you reach 80 it is open.
The 3 number combos are as in the video.

[femurat]

Do not remove bolts or hinges. They're not keeping the door shut. They're keeping it openable.

Good luck with the common combinations, they're worth a try, sometimes you're lucky

[ldj]

Do not remove bolts or hinges. They're not keeping the door shut. They're keeping it openable.

Good luck with the common combinations, they're worth a try, sometimes you're lucky

Thank y'all. Safe companies here say minimum $1,000 to open it. Safe isn't worth that much. I will try that 50 trick.

[ldj]

Do not remove bolts or hinges. They're not keeping the door shut. They're keeping it openable.

Good luck with the common combinations, they're worth a try, sometimes you're lucky

Thank y'all. Safe companies here say minimum $1,000 to open it. Safe isn't worth that much. I will try that 50 trick.

The 4 times 50 then back it hit a tight spot at 80. It didn't stop but hard.

[MartinHewitt]

What do you mean with "tight spot"? Stop means stop. In won't turn further unless you take a pipe wrench and break it.

If it did stop then can you turn the handle?

[ldj]

What do you mean with "tight spot"? Stop means stop. In won't turn further unless you take a pipe wrench and break it.

If it did stop then can you turn the handle?

No it didn't stop, I can turn more. I will just forget about opening it.

[billdeserthills]

What do you mean with "tight spot"? Stop means stop. In won't turn further unless you take a pipe wrench and break it.

If it did stop then can you turn the handle?

No it didn't stop, I can turn more. I will just forget about opening it.

That's what Mosler was hoping you'd say...