What are your rates?

[acl]

I didnt think they would teach picking in beginner courses (MLA that is) I think the reson for this maybe that they think that before you even see a pick you should know exactly how the lock works,how to cut a key to a lock etc.I know when i was training i spent bloody ages cutting keys,stripping down locks,cutting keys by hand to locks,selling locks,putting locks on shelfs! and fitting locks before i even had a sniff of lockpicking.I know that picking is the most interesting and rewarding side of locksmithing but theres a lot more to it im afraid.

[Romstar]

Nova Scotia Canada.

Call out fee $45.00 daytime. This covers lockouts.

$67.50 for 7:00pm-12:00 midnight. $85.00 for midnight till 8:00 am.

Hourly rate, $30.00 This is pretty standard unless it's an emergency install, rekey or otherwise. Examples included burgerly response, drunken husbands or other miscillaneous idiocy.

Parts, and materials at standard rates. I generally carry better quality than the hardware, so my locks cost more. I don't like dealing with low ballers. Cheap people always seem to know people cheaper than they are. If they could get cheap work, they wouldn't be calling me. So I stand pretty firm on my rates.

Romstar

[chubby007]

I have followed your comments on the BLA and would like to put you straight on a few points. The night time call out fee is £120 per hour and starts from the time you arrive. This is NOT doubled or priced from the time you leave home. As for training it is a BASIC lock OPENING coarse. You can then progress to 2-3 day car opening coarse's, digi coarse's and as from January non-destructive coarse's. The main guy who taught me John, is the Director of the the BLA and has some 30 years experience. The guys who have been lucky enough to be able to afford to go on non destructive coarse's and be able to buy the numerous picks and lifters (very expensive) can slag off the DRILLER KILLERS but we all start there. Some Idiot on here quoted as saying " I charge £75 for a call out and if I have to destroy the lock the I replace it like for like at no extra cost", Tell me clever boy how would you open an sc71 that has the snib dropped and locked, and no letterbox? I had this 2 weeks ago. The BLA is NO DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER BUSINESS except it's training prices need to be reveiwed, I agree they are far to expensive for what you get. As for find a locksmith.com it's a complete waste of time. What do you get for your £19 per month? Search me, Iv'e dropped out of the BLA as well, but I do remain unbias to the whole industy. I run a successful business but I don't take it for granted. I have had to work to pay for every coarse and tool myself. Every coarse run by every school is run for a reason-PROFIT. That is why we are all in business! It is so easy to pick out the one's who have had a company pay for their training. Sorry if I sound bitter, but locksmiths who started or are about to start training will know where I'm comming from. I will admit that I am no fan of the BLA, but they are no worse than some of the coarse's I have been on. By the way-MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE.

[reboot_zero]

You know, locksmithing and lock picking has been a side hobby of mine forever, but I've never actually attempted to think about actually working in the field...are there really high-end jobs out there? I mean, like very VERY expensive system installs and whatnot...because if I got in it I'd like to help new home owners design some security. Dunno if this is a pipedream job or what...figured I'd ask though.

[pinky]

as a clever boy i will answer, if the sc71 has been deadlocked then i will look for another way in, or i will open it destructively, i will then replace it free as promised in my ad, but with the amount of jobs i do because of this guarantee, the profit outstrips the odd loss job easily, call it a lost leader.

if you are honest how many sc71 locks do you attend that require this, not many il bet, i charge £10 more than my competition and make this guarantee, lets say i have to drill 1 lock in every 50 jobs i go to, as i charge £10 more for offering this guarantee, im £500 up , so it doesnt hurt to make this offer, personaly i have had to only drill 4 locks in 12 months, and due to this guarantee my turnover increased by 600% in my area, figures speak for themself.

even a newcommer can afford to offer this guarantee if properly tooled up, as if he drilled 1 lock in 10, he would still be quids in.

so if only an idiot can offer this, then i will say that the idiot saw a 600% increase in call outs, and a massive increase in profits due to this, so i look at bottom lines, overall increase in profit, my car , my home and my turnover, and think , whos the idiots ?????? those scratching for a living with a drill, or those that offer a fair and unique service, and profit from it, i win and so do my customers, so if increased business and increased profit mean you are an idiot, then so be it, i can live with that, no problem.

to me its about being a locksmith, not a door opener by any means, having pride in what you do.

answer honestly, how many deadlocked sc71 locks do you attend with no letterbox, what ratio of jobs do you need to open destructively ??, even a newbie will only have to destroy 1 lock in 10, with the increase in business this guarantee brings, at 1 in 10 i think any newbie could afford this.

the industry is changing, i dont think it will be the non destructive locksmiths offering these guarantees that will be left behind, so who will then be the idiots ?

as stated with the increased profits and turnover this has given me, i can comfortably afford to swallow the odd ingersoll etc as im quids in, so if that makes me a clever boy or an idiot, then il take that and still laugh all the way to the bank.

[pinky]

just as a quick add on;

rates depend on location, if i was in london or home counties i would obviously charge more, but i would offer the same guarantee, as this has given me the edge thanks to programs like rogue traders, it certainly changed my income for the better, but hey what do i know , i must just be an idiot cos chubby007 says so, but im a hell of alot better off for it , and its the driller killers that have helped me to make this extra income , oh and the lovely makers of rogue traders.

and yes all newbies must start with more use of the drill, but nothing stops them drilling 2 or 3mm holes and not destroying the lock, the kits cheap enough and it works, and then work towards non destructive opening fully.
the guarantee will help and not hinder.

to open bs locks you dont need a 2 to 3 day course, one would be ample to learn the methods and then practice, yes the picks are dear, but you could cover your area with no more than £2000 in bs picks and thats alot, how many openings to recoup the cost.

but hey you have your views, im happy to be a high earning non destructive idiot, or was it clever boy, surely couldnt be both ??

everyone i know of making this guarantee profits from it, or maybe we are all idiots, and its just chubb007 thats got it right, or maybe not ! i know what i think, facts and figures dont lie, you follow what path you like at the end of the day, but is it the right one.

[captainsawdust]

I got some more on order and they all work

[pinky]

does that make you an idiot too then ian ???
though you can use the bs picks, no matter what one you order, and i know you didnt need 2 to 3 days training to use them.

seems i got it wrong, it doesnt pay to be non destructive, nor to offer guarantees, well it works for me, and allows me a very comfortable lifestyle, therefore im a clever boy / idiot all in one, but i will say im better off for it.

[PickPick]

While your doing the best speeches as ususal Pinky, I'd like to adress this particular point:

Every coarse run by every school is run for a reason-PROFIT. That is why we are all in business!

Of course everyone is in this business to make money but there's also something called buisness ethics. And part of that is in my opinion to offer a good value for the price. That means if you run a locksmiths course where the attendees can become members of a so called locksmith association and start trading and offering their services to the public afterwards than they should be trained to the standards of a locksmith and not to the standards of a drill monkey. Which for me includes non-destructive opening techniques.

And if they don't want to learn that then they don't belong into the trade, period.
Being a locksmith once was a very honorable profession but thanks to cowboys, driller killers and ripoff artists, today they are sometimes regarded as being on the same ethics level as your average mugger, blackmailer or con-artist. Of course it takes a lot of money and effort to excel in this profession, that's why it takes professionals, people who are willing to invest that, people who are willing to improve their skills and not settle for second best or are just looking for some kind of job, any job. If that means that 3/4 of all locksmiths have to stop trading then fine, so be it, most of them wouldn't have made it in the long term anyway.

And before anyone points it out, no, I'm not from the trade, nevertheless I'm quite unhappy with the way it went downhill since the times of good old Hobbs, Bramah, Yale and so on.

[captainsawdust]

PINKY

NO IT BLOODY WELL DONT !!

EASIER TO USE THAN NAFF ARSING AROUND WITH A DRILL

[captainsawdust]

does that make you an idiot too then ian ???
though you can use the bs picks, no matter what one you order, and i know you didnt need 2 to 3 days training to use them.

seems i got it wrong, it doesnt pay to be non destructive, nor to offer guarantees, well it works for me, and allows me a very comfortable lifestyle, therefore im a clever boy / idiot all in one, but i will say im better off for it.

NO it didnt take 2 to 3 days to learn how to use them at all

even the Chippy has £2k worth of them !!

[pinky]

excellent post pick pick, training companies do exist to make a living, no one would do it otherwise, but there is what profit is made, fair or excessive, and what is actualy taught.

the industry has lots any standards , values or honour that it had, and yes due to cowboys, though if these cowboys had half a brain then they would realise doing the job right actualy pays , and long term is far more profitable.

poor training contributes to this, i would personaly teach any lockey the 4 methods to use all the bs picks, in just 1 day, 1 to 1 for £250, yes the picks are dear, but the rewards are worth it, as is the pride , values and honour that can be restored to the industry.

things are changing and there wont be room for cowboys in the future, and if those on this site who have gone non destructive are to be those that changed things for the better, then even better. i wonder how chubby007 would cope if 2 or 3 non destructive guys making this guarantee set up in his area, i wonder if they would be the idiots, i hope we all find out.

i for one have values, standards, and pride in myself and the industry im trying to change , and if i only make a slight difference then i have at least achieved something, i would become a road sweeper rather than sacrifice my values and pride and become a driller, and if a better more affordable training option came along , i would happily give up training all together, as i earn more out on the job, than when im training. so no not all trainers are like the bla.

[chubby007]

Seem to have touched a few nerves here, Firstly, I didn't start by Defending the BLA, I was correcting a mistake as to the night rate, (NB read again) Secondly I am not defending the DRILLER KILLERS simply stating a fact that when a locksmith first starts out , SOME don't have the capital to afford the whole range of picks to cover every Lock he comes upon. ( Again the BLA issued the template but not the lifters, what chance have you got?) I would agree that about 90% of the mortice work I do involves non-destructive opening. The sc71 job was in a flat. Thanks for the spelling lesson to whoever. I live in London, in my area alone there are 26 pages for locksmiths in the Yellow pages, 18 pages in the Thompson local and numerous adverts in numerous local papers for Locksmiths, When I take a call, like most locksmiths, I try to establish the cause/problem with the lock,and after trying to identify the lock/system then give a price. I don't charge a call out fee and if I can't rectify the problem there and then I don't take payment until I have. ie: broken multi-point. The insurance company that I do work for in my area will only pay for 1 in 10 damaged lock replacements that are down to me. You are correct, I have only just started to visit this site and if I need to know anything in the specialist section then I contact the technical advisor to that company for advise, not spend 4-5 weeks reading this site, although I have picked up a few tips on certain locks that will come in useful in the future. Like most people in this business I am more than aware of the Urgent need to have this business properly regulated and monitored ( or should that be monitered) the amount of cowboys around this area is astounding, I was phoned this morning to open and replace a Euro thumbturn in a upvc door and was told that he had already been quoted £25 !!! Sorry if i have offended anyone, NOT my intentention, apologies to the idiot too, ( )

[Hollywood]

I don't like dealing with low ballers. Cheap people always seem to know people cheaper than they are. If they could get cheap work, they wouldn't be calling me. So I stand pretty firm on my rates.

Romstar

LMAO

That is So true and it doesn't matter what type of Business your in either.
It just seems like everyone wants you to work for free or at cost.

or they say well your estimate was a little higher than the others.
and what they Fail to realize is that its worth it to pay the X-tra funds to have a Quality job done for you with Quality materials and it done right the first time.

I had a customer like that and they did go with the Low Baller what a mistake for them especially after informing them of the seriousness of the problem they had.
They called me back 3 weeks after the other guy completed the job
to remove all the work that that person did and to do it the Right way

And of course it Co$t them alot of x-tra money in the long run

[chubby007]

The template is designed for drilling a hole for position to insert the tool to lift the lever gates! It's a rip off of the Aldridge template, the BLA teaches ( wrongly) to use the template to drill a hole big enough (6mm) to be able to lift the the levers without specialist tools. How long you been a locksmith? As for stupid questions, most questions sound stupid to the people who know the answers