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Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
Forum rules
You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.

Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.

If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.

Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Postby fibersport » 19 Feb 2024 16:53

New member here. I just picked up an old safe that was locked open, I plan on restoring it to use. I was able to find the combination in a couple of minutes by opening up the back and studying how it worked. Pardon me if I don't get the right names on the parts, still learning. Anyway, the lock has a lot of miles on it, seems to be all brass with a S&G knob, there is no second line to the left of 12 o'clock on the ring outside the dial for changing the combination. The lever that has the fence on it drops in place by gravity and has the number 603 cast into it, there is no spring and there are no gears like some of the other S&G locks have. It has what I think is called a rolling bolt, it pivots around a post cast into the lock housing. The lock housing is cracked, the bolt has a small piece missing, the wheels are all brass but the outer one has cracks in it and everything just feels loose and sloppy which is why I am thinking it just needs to be replaced. The cover for the housing is held in place with one screw. The lock seems to have been worked on quite a bit. I have no idea how old the safe could be, there are no exterior markings. There was some simple gold pinstriping on the outer and inner door that was almost all straight lines. Any help or direction on identifying the lock is greatly appreciated. - Greg
fibersport
 
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Re: Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Postby Squelchtone » 19 Feb 2024 18:49

A picture is worth a thousand words. Please post some photos, there are too many safes and safe locks out there that are all so similar to give you any kind of accurate answer without seeing some photos.

Please reply to this post and go here and click Start Uploading to browse your computer or phone and upload photos to share with us: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60483&p=445410#p445410
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Re: Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Postby fibersport » 19 Feb 2024 19:38

https://ibb.co/TgHFjbD
https://i.ibb.co/QK61SC7/564-CCBD3-48-DD-48-EF-B9-E2-EC24-C86-CBE1-E-002.jpg
Image

I was hoping to be descriptive enough so I wouldn't have to post a picture, however it was pretty painless. I get the impression that it's a long obsoleted lock but I don't know of the safe was modified to work with the pivoting bolt or not. I did notice some extra holes in the plate where the lock attaches and looking at some of the parts, it looks like there was someone in there that was not a true craftsman. It's not a safe really worth anything so I'm not concerned in appearance but sloppy appearance is a good indicator of the quality of workmanship. As I dig deeper into this, hopefully a solution can be found.
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Re: Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Postby Squelchtone » 20 Feb 2024 18:04

You'll be hard pressed to find some of the parts, all the parts, or a full replacement lock to match that one. Is the goal to have a period correct restored safe, or just any replacement combination lock will do so you can have a working safe to use and aren't too concerned if the new lock looks just like the old one?

From the one photo I do not see any significant damage, and with a good tear down and clean up, that lock should be serviceable

I believe your lock is a Sargent & Greenleaf Model 6810 with a roller bolt.

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Re: Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Postby Squelchtone » 20 Feb 2024 18:14

If you post a photo of the front of the safe including the corners, wheels, and dial and handle we can probably tell you the safe maker's name. It looks like your dial is above your handle, which would suggest it was made by National.
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Re: Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Postby fibersport » 20 Feb 2024 20:47

Thank you Squelchtone. There is a post from Kenneth V back in November 2020, he has or had one in that post. His looks very much like mine. My picture doesn't show everything. The case of the lock is cracked, the roller bolt is damaged and everything is extremely loose and sloppy. The outer disk has cracks around the little square hole that I think is for changing the combination I think.

My plans are to make the safe a working and useable safe. I do plan on refinshing it as close to original as I can but I've not totally decided on color. As for the lock, that might be why the safe was no longer used. The safe handle is to the left of the lock. The bar that is moved by the handle (through a linkage) moves horizontally about 0.625", when the bolt pivots it allows the bar to go inside the lock. With a new style lock, I think it only allows for about 0.35" of travel so a new style lock most likely will just drop in place. I'm attaching a link to a picture of the inside of the door. I will include one of the outside tomorrow.

Is there any chance you might know when the S&G 6810 was manufactured? My dial is black with white numbers, the one shown in Kenneth V's post was all silver, I think my dial may have been changed at one time and actually the safe may have been drilled too but I couldn't see any evidence of it from the outside, only on the inside and some damage to the lock.

I appreciate the assistance, since there doesn't seem to be any markings on the safe, finding out who made it and when will be tough.

https://ibb.co/ynB15SX
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Re: Help identifying a lock so I can replace it

Postby fibersport » 21 Feb 2024 20:52

Here are some pictures of the safe. Right now it's still on my trailer so I'm a little limited in getting some pictures. I think I have figured out how to install a new style lock with minimal modification. The good thing is that it won't be noticable unless you open the back. Chances are that it might even look more original than what I have. The outside dimensions are 37-3/4" without the casters, 30-1/2" wide and 28" deep.

https://ibb.co/bHD7f0p
https://ibb.co/z2bR7XD
https://ibb.co/ZY7dTmm
https://ibb.co/Smxv7JT
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