S&G combo not working

[frank4sure]

Greetings.
I have a Liberty Gun safe, Freedom series with S&G mechanical combination lock that prior to being moved was working fine. Its been in my garage for 20 years since then and I have tried many times to open it even with adjacent numbers to what I think was the combination. Now wondering if the combination was wrong. I have a faint memory the numbers were unclear on the paper, but now wish I hadn't transcribed them and tossed the original since it may have been wrong.

I have even tried several methods, including rattling the arm and dial, rubber mallet tapping, etc. And plotting gate changes as I try numbers around the dial. But I don't know the model number of the lock so I can look for specific methods that might work and may be barking up the wrong tree.

I am fairly sure about 2 of the three numbers, but not the first. When I dial the combo I have and turn back clockwise the dial feels some resistance at about 97 and should stop at 85 but doesn't. I also know that is one of the node contact points with the cam. But I feel the same resistance when trying other numbers and trying to plot it so fairly convinced something is wrong with that one number i have.

If I know the S&G model, i might help me understand if one method or another will get me there. Attached pics, suggestions appreciated.
Thx
https://ibb.co/SxCtZpq
https://ibb.co/bW0NjSK

[FranklyFlawless]

I cannot seem to access those photos, but my limited research of popular safes (ignoring Sentry Safe) typically used Sargent and Greenleaf 6730, which has three wheels.

[Squelchtone]

I cannot seem to access those photos, but my limited research of popular safes (ignoring Sentry Safe) typically used Sargent and Greenleaf 6730, which has three wheels.

I fixed the [URL] tags

[FranklyFlawless]

Thank you. Searching through the Liberty Safe Quick Start Guide confirms my hunch:

https://d2zvhg7xe2wt47.cloudfront.net/m ... 4965_4.jpg

To be specific, this should be the equivalent of the Sargent and Greenleaf 6730-112.

[Squelchtone]

It sounds like you aren't all together sure of the combination. When is the last time this safe was dialed open successfully? has it been a month? a year? 5 years?

Knowing the model of the safe lock wont help you honestly if you don't know the combination or think you know it and start going down the road of "its can't be me who has the wrong combination, it must be something wrong witht he safe lock" you'll chase your tail.

There's a pretty good way to figure out wheel 3, it is part of the safe cracking art called "manipulation"

You need to first figure out the drop in area, but going to 0 on the dial and then dialing left and right fairly quickly to figure out where the Left and Right contact points are. They'll feel like the wheel is suddenly going over a speed bump for a second. Turn the dial left and right with 2 in fingers, barely gripping the dial so you can really get a good feel for when you encounter the contact points. Once you are pretty sure they are at like 05 and 15 for example, you can cycle the entire dial to find wheel 3.

Turn the dial AWL (All Wheels Left)(counter-clockwise) at least 4 to 5 full revolutions and to stop on 20.

Now turn the dial right and find the contact point where you feel a bump. note where on the dial you are hitting that bump. it is at 15, or 15.2 or 14.8, 14.6, 14.5, 14.4, 14.2, or 14.0 ? make a chart for 20, 25,30,35,40,45,50,55,60,65,70,75,80,85,90,95,0, 5, and 10. make a note where on the dial you feel the bump starting,

next turn the dial Left back towards 20, and turn past it to 25.

Now turn the dial Right back to the contact point where you feel like you're going over that speed bump, and turn the dial left and right a few times to go over the bump and take note of where this is happening on the dial. For most of the tests as you go around the reading will be the same, so let's say 14.6, but you'll advance the wheel to one of the numbers, lets say 65, and turn back to the contact point, and you'll feel the speed bump at 14.4 or 14.2. this may be very subltle or it may be the difference of a half to a full number. On the S&G 6730, in practice, this tends to be a good test to find out what the combination is for wheel 3.

Perhaps if you find this number, it will jog your memory or help confirm that the 2nd and 3rd number are in fact what you remember.

Watch this for some inspiration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5JqYJyaIyQ

good luck
Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

Looks like you started a duplicate thread for this question. Let's keep the replies and conversation going in this thread please, I have deleted the second one.

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[frank4sure]

Sorry for the duplicate, it wasn't intentional.

I have been watching many Youtube videos including the one you posted and wasn't too sure if the lock type mattered so thankyou for confirming my thought it was a 6730.

Yes, the safe has been in my garage for over 20 years, unopened, since we moved it empty on its side in my pickup, a 6 hour drive. I wondered if this could have messed it up. And originally I had faint numbers scribbled on paper. When we emptied it my brother opened it with the combination he always used, no problem. When it arrived at my house I tried many times to no avail, but was only trying the combination I had then transcribed to a new piece of paper. My brother even put markers on the combo wheel for two of the numbers, so pretty positive of those.

Most recently tried again to use same numbers and adjacent ones to see if it might work. So yeah, I have redone it many times thinking it was me. Then wondering if the numbers may have slipped in transport. Then I went to shake handle, rubber mallet between the contact points (96-7) just in case I had a stubborn lever after 20 years that wont drop in the slot.

I was hopeful I could confirm at least one number so I also tried plotting it on paper, but have done this now twice without anything sticking out, except that I was inconsistent in reading the dial. I am also learning the feel of it.

Second time I got a bright light and magnifying lens to help, but wish i had finer increments to measure. I would say my best ability is maybe thirds of an increment. Tenths seems impossible without some sort of precision tool. Or maybe it simply has out of round wheels as some have stated so that another wheel is masking the area I need.

Im going to give the third wheel a third try by taping a very fine marker on the combo dial. But I am already thinking I need to learn how to determine a different wheel pack.

[Kaesekopf]

Sounds like you could do some tests to see if the lock seems to be operating correctly

Could check: if dial turns cleanly both directions, if dial or ring has sloppiness in an axis that seems weird, if the contact points are clean and don’t seem to move when you check them without changing anything else.

When you dial wheels 5 times left and stop at 50, then turn right, can you feel all the wheels picking up, and at what numbers? You might have to try that a few times.

Good luck