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by Peter Martin » 15 Nov 2020 20:56
Has anyone seen a FB200 key machine with dial calipers added -- to make it into something like a Jensen Micro-dial?
With the large spaces around the carriage, it seems possible... and I don't think this is an original idea, I may have read about this somewhere in a magazine. Be an interesting modification to make it work as a more precise code cutting machine.
Pete Sioux Falls, SD
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Peter Martin
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by Peter Martin » 15 Nov 2020 21:27
Squelchtone, Yes! Something like that might make an old FB200 worth having again. Thanks. Probably easier to buy the kit than to try and make my own jigs/fixtures. Pete
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Peter Martin
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by billdeserthills » 16 Nov 2020 12:25
Thanks for the link, just picked up a couple of on sale cutter shafts
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by bitbuster » 16 Nov 2020 17:41
In my possession. Depth and spacing mics. Ready to cut. https://imgur.com/a/lRw6Wyw
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned". Ralph Waldo Emerson
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by Kenneth_V » 16 Nov 2020 22:53
Any one have any videos out there on using that dual mic setup? I couldn't find 200's dual setup on youtube
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by Jacob Morgan » 22 Nov 2020 20:49
If you have some 5/8" shaft collars (for spacing) and dial or electronic calipers, you can rig up any FB200 to cut by code by doing some math, given the space and depth info in the FB200 handbook, and moving the shaft collars around to different caliper measurements. It would not be as fast as the ~$250 space attachment from Foley Belsaw, but if you have the calipers already, this way is a lot cheaper if you just want to do a few keys by code.
Split shaft collars are less likely to scar up the shaft than normal ones.
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by demux » 23 Nov 2020 9:46
Jacob Morgan wrote:If you have some 5/8" shaft collars (for spacing) and dial or electronic calipers, you can rig up any FB200 to cut by code by doing some math, given the space and depth info in the FB200 handbook, and moving the shaft collars around to different caliper measurements. It would not be as fast as the ~$250 space attachment from Foley Belsaw, but if you have the calipers already, this way is a lot cheaper if you just want to do a few keys by code.
Split shaft collars are less likely to scar up the shaft than normal ones.
Heh, one of the first things I did when I got my FB200 was install a couple of split shaft collars for this very purpose. Nice to see someone else had the same idea. As an aside, it also makes calibrating the machine much easier as you can lock the carriage in place. Though I haven't done any code cutting on my FB200 since I got my Framon #2. 
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by Sinifar » 6 Oct 2024 11:51
YA KNOW -- the Folet 200 was designed to work with the one micrometer and guide keys.
What are guide keys? Good question. IF you took the actual Foley course you got three / four in my case with the thing. Three car guide keys - the old single sided ford, the old Chrysler (will work on current singe sided) and a GM 6 cut key which you can make the single sided GM keys with today. ALSO in lesson 23 you got a Schlage wafer disc guide key. OH ya I forgot, also a Corbin Cabinet lock key cut to 6 spaces -- disc lock. 1000T
For the Schlage wafer disc - This allowed you to make those keys as originals on the machine. ask AND I might find a way to show you the picture. Just imagine a key cut on one side only -- 10/1 3 5 7 9 11 13. Turn the cut key around to cut the even side. After almost 50 years of making these I still use that to make Schlage WD keys both A & W. For W turn the micro -15 to the right to reduce the cutting .015 and the thing will work just fine/ Just leave the micro set to 0/0 and go for it for the A and over turn .015 for the W. YES I do still run into these from time to time. It is NOT gone.
I know what you are thinking -- but also know I do have a Framon 2, a HPC 1200 and other key generators. Just with the small truck, transit connect, there is no room for a major key generator, so I use the FB 200.
ON that I have made up a guide key set of 74 guide keys from Arrow to Yale with all the "specials" included and marked on the key bow. LIKE the National 1064L 5 pin on the 4 pin bow (.125 spacing). or the 1003M with the .195 and .125 center from the shoulder to first cut. I made the entire set on the Framon 2 and have the FB200 set to exactly to 0/0 mark.
From there you need "drop cards" -- THESE are index cards you make up showing how to set the micro for each cut.
Example, Schlage standard. .231 from shoulder to first cut them .156 between cuts, center to center. NOW WHAT?
The guide key is made into a Schlage 6 pin #1 key cut on the Framon. #1 cuts in the right spaces all the way across. NOW on your guide card you show #1 - .000 or at 0/0. Using this will give you a 1 on each position. The rest? Ready?
ON top of the card you rule off 13 spaces down. The fist line is the type of key, then number down the card 0 thru 9. I do this every 2 manufacturers. So it goes like this --
Schlage - 0 - -.015, that is turn the thing over the center to cut higher then the machine normally does. Then -- 1 - .000 2 .015, 3 .030, 4 .045, 5 .060, 6 .075, 7 .090, 8 .105, 9 .120. YOU can read a micro can't you? JUST dial up the number, find where you want the cut to be, and then slowly center on that guide key cut until you hit the guide key then gently rock back and forth on the guide key pin land and you have made the # whatever cut on the key in the right space. Trust me it works.
MORE? Kwikset // cuts both the 5 in and 6 pin keys, need special guide key for the Titan locks however, just one more in the set .. any way -- It makes no difference, 1 - -.024 again over turn the micro to make this cut or just leave it as a full blank. 2 - .000, 3- .024, 4 - 048, 5 - .072, 6 - .096 7, .120 That is the full cut range for KW1 and KW 11
This card goes thru Weiser, Arrow, Sargent URS .012 spacing and sectional LA & N .020 works on all of them. Next Weslock Yale standard 019 and Special 025 depths. These is also another Yale on the ring maybe later I will tell you what that one Is, you gotta ask. that' s card #1 Card #2 has Corbin Russwin Emhart Sys 70 - .015 and ,014 depths, with the keys indicated on top. To Best A2 A3 A4. To Chicago pin and disc and ends with Dexter. .
The set goes thru card #6, and lot of them have something on the back which is also cutting data.
You do not need the double micro set, which costs a fortune, like over 300 bux from my last FB catalog which shows them, Just some knowledge of the craft and how this works.
AS far as accuracy, that depends on how much experience you have with the machine IF you are an old hand this is ABC, until you can figure out how to cut keys. This is a light machine, my '95 unit is aluminum so, you will need some time on it to get that knowledge.
LAST note this post. I have made Russwin A1011L4 keys on this machine while sitting in Memorial Mall parking lot in Neenah to rekey 12 Russwin LFIC, that is large format interchangeable core -- cores with a new control key, master and several change keys all in 2 hours in the parking lot. ALL worked like glass!
Just saying that you do not need tons of stuff to make the gun go bang just a lot of knowledge and experience and ANY KEY MACHINE which can make an original will work .. it is not the tools, but the CRAFTSMAN who makes the difference...
Enjoy ask and I will tell more.
Sinifar,
Celebrating my 50th year in ALOA ..
Ya I am an old smith like in my mid 70's and still working every day.
The early bird may get the worm, but it is the second mouse which gets the cheese! The only easy day was yesterday. Celebrating my 50th year in the trade!
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Sinifar
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by Raymond » 6 Oct 2024 22:22
I never had one of the original machines with two micrometers. So I took a piece of 1/2" aluminum and drilled a hole on one end to allow it to fit on the vice shaft and locked it in place with a set screw. I drilled another hole in the other end to put in a micrometer and locked it in place with a set screw.. It can measure accurately on both planes.
Hats off Sinfar. You got into it a lot more that I needed to. I also used the Framon 2 with very good results.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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by Sinifar » 7 Oct 2024 10:37
Thanks for the comeback on this old topic. Actually, my original FB200 was the gray cast iron machine which I got in the late 60's. this lasted until the mid 90's. That is when I bought new one, the current black unit made of aluminum. Necessity is the mother of all things.
When our last big ford E350 died in the early 00's, I was too broke to really afford another big truck, and like all long time small businesses, we were in a tight spot with good part of our clients going out of biz or just moving out of the are. WE just downsized to a 02' Ford Focus wagon. This lasted for 12 years before it was getting tired. (154,000 miles)
Of course with the down sizing, one had to also reduce everything else which was on the road. That meant no more big machines like the Framon 2 or much of anything else. Also we did not have the platform for our "Rediline" 110 volt instant start electric unit. (120 volts, 20 amps) So I went with a plug in inverter, 400 watts. Now find a machine which can run on that.
Fortunately I did have the FB200 sitting down here in the office, all cleaned up and ready for the next phase of the biz. I had problems with the old unit holding tolerances and other issues with it after almost 35 years of being used on and off -- first to start the biz in 72, then on the road with the original ILCO brown "buzz box" which put out 110 volts at 100 watts. THAT lasted for many years as our road unit, with a HPC 1200 in the office to make a lot of originals, and MEDECO keys, which is why we bought that unit. In the shop was also a Curtis 9, if you remember that unit, I still have it down here and it works very well after 50 years. Cuts cylinder keys, flat keys with a 45 and 70 thousand cutters and a T cutter to cut bit keys, which in the old days we cut about a box of those a month (50),
I knew the Ford was reaching the end when it could not go more than 40 miles without blowing out a quart of oil and nobody wanted to pull the engine to put new seals in both ends, SO that was how that happened. MY next thought was what to use next?
The guy down the street from us in West Allis, our original location (1972-1984) had a Ford full sized wagon. WHY not us for the next unit? Found a good low mileage lease turn in and bought that for around 10K, v/s almost 22K for a new one.
Cut my inventory to what I could stuff into 6 milk crates and a drawer unit from the vans, and of course the usual tool assortments. It was a full unit, The FB200 sat in the very rear where could use it sitting on a two step ladder under the tailgate and work in that space. Trust me for 12 long hot and cold years as well as rainy and snowy weather it was miserable to work outside, but I had no other choice.
Which is what brought us to the 2014 Transit Connect. Now back inside I could carry more inventory and parts, and best of all work at a bench. Tight but workable Now the FB200 came into it's own as something I could make anything on INSIDE OUT OF THE WEATHER . It worked and still does.
AS far as the guide keys, those were collected over the ages as I needed them, many made on the HPC 1200 originally, and later on the Framon. With the coming of smaller vehicles on the horizon, like I said I had bought the 95 FB200 because i just knew we were going to have to "start over" and I wanted a really good, new machine to do it with. A code cutter, duplicator, and a flat key cutter all in one unit on the road. The 200 filled the bill.
ON that last, the original flat cutter was a .55 unit which bucked like crazy ad had to feed very easily and slowly. I replaced that with a HPC CW-BC, which is .54 and is carbide. It is the same size as the FB cutters, just about .015 smaller. Adjust over and cut away. Buzzes thru safe deposit keys like S & G like crazy and makes a very good key.
Ya well before this turns into a novel, I guess I should go. Thanks for the comeback.
The Dinosmith
Sinifar.
The early bird may get the worm, but it is the second mouse which gets the cheese! The only easy day was yesterday. Celebrating my 50th year in the trade!
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