Problem w Safe Lid

[sign216]

This safe lid / door has no markings, reportedly an Amsec. The unit often won't unlock. It appears that the yellow base plate (see arrow) is slightly loose, and freely rotates a few degrees left/right. When the base plate rotates, then even if the wheels are correctly aligned, they'll be out of sync w the fence, and combo fails to open the unit.

I think the base plate is designed to rotate when unlocked to move the bolts in/out, but this one has wear or another issue causing the base plate to move even when locked.

Any experience or insight to these?

Joe

[image] [/image]

[Raymond]

Set all wheels to 50 while doing your testing. After dialing the combo, if all wheels are not perfect then something is wrong with the wheels. (dragging, sticky fly, missing spacer...etc.) The base plate may be held in place by the ribs and grooves on the fence. It must be rotated fully to put the cover back on correctly. Make sure it is fully down. These safes can be a PITA but will eventually fall into place.
I usually mark the cover plate and each attachment screw hole to make putting the cover back on correctly. I also put a light pin punch dent where each locking bolt is in case I have to drill.

[sign216]

Raymond,
The issue isn't the wheels. They stay in alignment even if the lock won't open. The issue is that the base plate has slop, so it can change the alignment of the wheels and the fence.

Checking my notes, I worked on one of these years ago that had a problem. Notes say that the base plate can be positioned 4 ways, but only 1 is correct. I think everything is correctly positioned on this one because everything fits, but maybe that's a false positive.

Is there a way to tighten the base plate, and eliminate the rotation slop?

Joe

P.S. I mark the back cover too, to make sure it goes on right. Looks like there's 2 possible ways out of 3, in putting the rear cover on. Maybe I should try the 2nd possible way to eliminate that as a factor.

[Raymond]

That safe head looks extremely clean! I had to strip one of these down completely about three weeks ago due to excessive corrosion and chicken grease. I forgot to mark where the base plate went. You can figure it out quickly by setting the wheels to the change position and looking for the hole the tip of the change key fits into. It should be opposite the wheel gates. If I remember correctly the base plate rotated CCW to stop to put the back cover on. I usually use a long, thin Allen wrench to line up the cover, change key holes on all wheels, and the hole on the base plate when I put on the cover. But if it was working before you got it then the base plate should be correct. As far as the base plate being sloppy, the cover usually holds it in place for me. You did remember to push down at "0" before and while turning the dial. (I know- too simple) I'm not sure what else to suggest. Maybe someone else will jump in and set all of us straight. Good luck!

[sign216]

Raymond,
I give you credit. Your description pointed out something that I didn't recognize;
1) The slop in the fence is taken care of by the back cover. The cover has cut outs and grooves, and one groove matches the top of the fence, fixing the fence to one position, so that the slop doesn't matter.
2) When finding the combo, the fence must be in the same position as when it matches the cover groove. In my unit, it's with the fence rotated all the way left, CCW. Then, it matches the cover groove.

I've got the right combo, and it's reliable, but ... as with many old machines, solving one problem illustrates another.
The lid withdraws the bolts on the first pass only 1/2 the time. The other 1/2 you have to turn the dial all the way for another pass, sometimes turning it two times for a third pass.

Remember that this lid works on a cam, and it there's too much friction (like if the combo is wrong) the cam slides off and the dial keeps turning. But, 1/2 the time it does this even if the combo is right, and the bolts withdraw on the 2nd or 3rd pass. I'm guessing there's too much friction somewhere, and 1/2 the time it's easier for the cam to slide off than to withdraw the bolts.

I've got two ideas. One is to spray some Teflon lube onto the bolts and relocking studs that bear on them, and hope that is enough to get the cam working every time.
Other idea is to disassemble the wheel pack and base plate, to clean and smooth out the base plate surface, hoping that does it.

Does this sound reasonable?
Joe

[Raymond]

When you push the dial in, with all wheels perfectly aligned, the fence should move into the unlocked condition. Then while keeping the dial in, turn the dial left. Don't let the dial up until you have turned it or the drive wheel will spring back up, acting on the fence, and will push it back out. Make sure that the drive wheel is not screwed down too far on the dial spindle or it wont be fully clear when you push in the dial.

There is nothing wrong with giving the wheels a full cleaning. Lay them out in order. Lift out each fly and clean it and the groove it slides in thoroughly. I often use a piece of thin cloth on the tip of a pick for the groove. Carb cleaner is a good solvent for this as it dries quickly. Replace DRY. You can apply some very thin grease on the post the wheels go onto but don't lube the actual wheel surfaces. A very light lube can be placed on the washer between the wheels as long as it cannot move into the fly and groove. Also lube under the bottom wheel and bolt plate.

The locking bolts and the relocker bolts can be lubed more liberally with a thin, low viscosity, rust preventive grease.

[sign216]

Raymond,

Thanks for those tips. This mechanism is overly complex, which makes for problems as parts wear. I'll try to get it working 100%

Joe

[sign216]

Raymond, thank you for the help. The safe door is working 100%

It would have been impossible without your experience.

Joe

[Raymond]

YES, I meant Right...

turn the dial left.