Kwikset knob drving me insane

[evangelic]

hello! im new on this forum (and to lockpicking in general), and have recently purchased a kwikset security brass knob (sn#14336-001al), and the thing is driving me insane. it seems that i can set all the pins except the first one, and regardless of tension adjustments i cant get the little bastard to set.

in the 3 days i have practiced lockpicking, i have picked a schlage knob, a master 140 (great fun, that one), a master gun lock, and a yale knob.

i read up on all posts about kwiksets in the Locks section of the forum, and the general consensus is that they are simple locks to pick.

i have spent crazed amounts of time on this Kwikset, and that pin is nuts. when i release tension i can hear 4 pins drop (out of 5), but that pin wont set! grrr! i want to smelt it! seriously, im patient, i wont give up, help would certainly be cool.

any tips will be appreciated!

i love this forum! i love lockpicking!

[Mr Ules]

welcome to the forum however I'd like to remind you that we don't like the use of profane language. Aswell, have you tried reading the lock before picking it?

[evangelic]

doh sorry about the cursing, wasnt paying attention. i have the key to the lock, i have tested the pins for resistance, maybe id better re-read the guides because i dont think i kno how to read the locks......

[MrB]

Mr Ules: what profane language? Actually, most of use are quite mature round here (even immature, going by the innuendo that repeatedly appears in many posts).

evangelic: Kwiksets might be simple to pick on the whole, but some examples can be harder than others. I have noticed that Kwikset are using extreme high/low bittings on the keys of their locks these days, and that can make a simple lock substantially more challenging to pick.

[Mr Ules]

What I'm trying to prove is that there are springs within each set of pins. If you put something thin and flat to the back of the lock and slowly retract your tool you should hear ( according to the ammount of pins ) a certain ammount of pins drop. AND, the pin could already be at the shear line. I've had that happen.

[WALKER]

I would think that one of the other pins is not at the shear line. If they were it would be no problem to hit the last shear line. One or more of the other pins are not in the right place, probably just one. Just because you can hear them drop does not mean they were at the shear line. It sounds like you have three pins at shear and one pin in a bind, which you will also hear when you release tension. Keep on, you'll get it.

[Mr Ules]

I think we've established that already. Were trying to figure out if there's an internal problem. As I mentioned before, the first pin could already be at the shear line.

Just because you can hear them drop does not mean they were at the shear line.

A locksmith once told me that when you release the tension you should hear the pins which are at the shear line drop. This is because the pins are resting on the shear line but the bottom pins have droped down. The tension from the springs within the lock then force the pins to snap down on the bottom pins. This is why there's a snapping sound.

[evangelic]

aha! thanks for the responses, this is good advice.

i have the key, so i can see that the lock has 5 pins, with pins 1, 4, and 5 being high set, with pin 2 a little lower and pin 3 just plain low.

so my question is, how should i approach the order? lowest first? also, if a pin is low set, then that means that i gotta push the key pin farther, right?

the driver definitely isnt setting because i can see where it ends adjacent to the key pin.

i think what walker was tryin to say is that key pins can get bound up without setting, so they just feel like they are setting (no spring tension) and be high enough up in the shaft to click. i did notice that some of the pins clicked louder than others. or maybe the bending effect mentioned in the Not Associated with MIT Guide for Beginners is responsible for these false clicks.

im gonna get on the third pin and see if i can set that first. thanks again.

-the Wolfe

[WALKER]

You can't choose which pin to pick first by which cuts are deep or shallow. The pin holes are in a straight line-- but not exactly straight. The holes are offset slightly. Put a good amount of tension-a little more than neccesary, on plug and use half-diamond or small hook to feel each pin. One should be bound and will not move. the rest or most will. If two bind, use less tension untill you can pinpoint one. That is how to find the one to set first. When you find the first one, release the tension. Use slight tension and work on the pin you found to be the first. when it sets at the shear line you SHOULD feel the plug move slightly-then feel for next stiff pin. But remember-IT'S MOSTLY IN THE TENSION. Feel how much tension is needed with the key, this will help, maybe use just a little more--not much.

[evangelic]

yo walker thanks that is awesome advice. cant wait to get home now heh.