When it comes down to it there is nothing better than manual tools for your Lock pick Set, whether they be retail, homebrew, macgyver style. DIY'ers look here.
by zeke79 » 3 Jan 2005 4:05
I do the same with a fine diamond stone and oil on all of my homemade picks. I really need to add them to the ftp as I have some pretty effective rake designs and rockers.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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by Peaky » 3 Jan 2005 7:07
Sorry Romstar 
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by raimundo » 12 Jan 2005 12:43
peaky definately know his grinders, everyone who thinks grinders are the way to go should read his stuff very carefully, the bits about putting the tool rest close to the wheel and above center and never pointed downward are about saving you from shrapnel and also saving your project from becoming trash. read them carefully.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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by Peaky » 12 Jan 2005 15:22
Thanks for the compliment raimundo,
I should have said why you should do these things, thanks for the clarifacations.
Working for the Health and Safety Excecutive for over 14 years i have seen and heard most things, i never go on fair ground rides and dont use the public train systems but here are 3 stories that are allways in the back of my mind whenever i work with my grinders,
1) In March 2003 in the uk there was a fitter who was working on a surface grinder, he decided to clear the grinding slag off the table and around the work piece by scraping it with a piece of 8mm plate, nothing too wrong here i hear you cry except the grinder was grinding at the time and was cleaning up a piece of 4mm plate, yes youve guessed it the plate got caught by the magnetic table and the table pushed it under the wheel, reasulting in the wheel exploding, the fitter was very quick in jerking away and the wheel broke up and as usual in these incidents, got thrown/spat out through the machine guards to the side of the machine and hit a wall, all except a piece the size of an egg which hit him in the face and exited the back of his skull killing him instantly!!!!
2) At a differant firm later that year a welder was using a slitting disc on a 9" grinder to clean the edges of a freshly welded item (this is a no no by the way) he accidentally dug it in when someone called him for the phone and the disc broke up with a piece finding its way behind his safety glasses and embeding itself in his eye! he lost most of his sight in that eye and eventually had to have it removed because of infection!!
3) A few years ago a guy at home was working in his cellar making bits for a car he was restoring, he was grinding on a pedistal grinder and what he didnt notice was the oily rags on the floor that he had previously mopped a spillage up with, had caugt fire with the constant sparks hitting them, and his whole house burnt down as the fire caught light to the wooden beams above him and in turn the rest of the place, he was lucky?, he survived, as when he did eventually notice the fire he climbed out of a window that lead to the drive way, his elderly frail mother upstairs in bed didnt survive however!!!
I have heard of dremel type machines spitting bits out and damaging eyes, wheels shattering when being dressed due to the operitive not obeying the simplesest of safety precautions etc etc
Yes these storys are sad and may not have a place here but for the fact of to warn you all that grinders are a dangourus tool and should be treated with respect, clear the surrounding area, wear safety protection and yes i even have an extingisher to hand in my workshop. I can tell these stories all night and show everyone the dangers and the press releases but the accidents still happen just make sure it isnt YOU.
COMMON SENSE IS FREE BUT THE BEST SAFETY FEATURE WE HAVE
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Peaky
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by Peaky » 12 Jan 2005 16:07
Ok just thought of another couple of points then i will stop boring you all and let you get on to making those picks,
If you are grinding somthing that is too small to hold in your fingers SAFELY then you shouldnt be grinding it!! put it in a vice and file it instead, if it is a hard material use a very fine file and wire brush it clean regulary.
Holding pieces in pliers is dangourus as it can fall in to the wheel especially if the guide isnt set properly. Mole grips could be used as a intermediatry but definatley not advised for the newbe.
A grinding injury to your fingers will not be felt and will not bleed much if at all, the injury can be much much worse than your mind tells you.
Buy an eye bath, or a bottle of Optrex eye wash (an eye cleaning solution which comes with a platic bath you hold over your eye), dont keep it next to the grinder unless its on the wall above and away from the machine, instead keep it readily to hand where you or you partner can find it easily, with blurred vision if nessacary.
If you do get somthing in your eye DO NOT RUB IT this will/can scratch your eye, grinding dust/sparks can/will also burn your eye.
If you get somthing in your eye/s keep it closed untill you wash it out, this will stop your eye moving around as much and cause less damage, a watering eye is good as it is your bodys way of trying to wash the bits away.
Get to your eye wash and thoroughly wash it as instructed on the bottle, NEVER use the solution more than once and NEVER put it back into the bottle, wash your eye and throw it away, refill the bath and wash it again.
If after a couple of washes the bits are still there go to your local casulty department, they will wash it out again and then squirt in iodene to see if you have scratched it or not.
Lastly DO NOT LEAVE A GRINDER RUNNING UNATTENDED also loose clothing around a floor mounted pedistal grinder (or any other for that matter) is also dangourus.
Yes i am being slightly hypercritical, i have been to casulty approx 4 times throughout those 14 years to have my eyes washed out and have scratched them a couple of times and also had a burn on one of them, the burn was from doing 'just a quickie' on a lathe and a piece of swalf hitting me. I learnt from my mistakes and wear glasses or goggles EVERY time i grind anything as its the small quicke jobs that hold the most danger.
Most of all dont be afraid of your machine just respect it, have fun.
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by _Ethereal_ » 12 Jan 2005 17:41
Omg, this is like metalwork class all over again, Don't do this, Don't do that..wow.
Some very good information though, every one using a grinder to make picks listen to him, listen to him very well. Now im to scared to use my grinder 
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by HeadHunterCEO » 12 Jan 2005 20:27
i speak from experience
grinders don't cut you
they remove material
and when that material is your finger it takes a long time to heal and it hurts like hel.
dremels make the same wound but baby sized
Doorologist
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by 99atlantic » 13 Jan 2005 2:44
well after reading through all this i can say that I am thoroughly terrified of grinders now.....my dad says I shouldn't be....he's cut his fingers off 4 times (and had them re-attached each time) during his woodworking carrer, so I don't know if I should trust him :/
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by 99atlantic » 13 Jan 2005 2:47
question - ist here any type of gloves or hand protectants you can wear when working on a grinder? i want to protect my hands, but at the same time I dont' want the glove getting caught int he grinder and killing me 
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99atlantic
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by Peaky » 13 Jan 2005 5:08
Firstly dont be afraid of grinders just respect them.
If you follow the instructions that came with your machine or follow whats written here you will be able to do anything on one and do it safely.
Gloves can be worn if grinding larger items on larger machines but for grinding picks i wouldnt advise it, if the guide and safety screen is adjusted correctly in most cases you shouldnt be able to get your hand close enough to touch the wheel anyway.
If you are not confident in useing machineary then dont, buy some commercial picks but to be honest confidence and skill come with practice, one of the grinders they used to have at work was a 20" dia floor mounted one that had a massive howl when started up, i shat my pants every time it started up for years whether i was useing it or not
As long as you follow the few simple steps each time you start work;
Is the wheel damaged in anyway, any chunks out of it or the safety features not fitted or working? dont use it.
Wear your eye protection.
Do you have a plan of what you want to achive?
You will all be fine.
_Ethereal_ sorry it sounds like class again but for most people there was no attention paid in those classes and they need reminding, when the GCSE's came in for the uk metal work class was abandoned in most schools anyway.
99atlantic im sorry to hear that your dad cant thumb lifts anymore, thats due to another problem with machineary, over familiarity and complacency with a machine or process, ie you get yourself into a false sence of security and almost feel immortal on certain machines thats when accidents happen the most, ask your dad and if hes honest thats how he has had his fingers removed so many times, by all means ask your dads advise he obviously has a lot of useful experiance, just dont learn his bad tricks.
Grinders shouldnt be feared, most of you will probably be useing the small 6" (or smaller) ones you buy from your local hardware store, they are mass produced and ideal for making picks, follow the instructions of people like the pick maker and raimundo and you will be perfectally fine.
If you are new to making things i am sorry for droneing on and scareing a few of you that wasnt the intention but somtimes works the best, there is a lot of professinal people on here and if you are not sure any one of us can point you in the right direction, i havent really said anything that isnt in your grinder instructions, have a go if your not happy get some night classes at your local collage or school, most places let you make what you want so you could make picks and be guided on how to make them well and safely, i have only touched on safety in the last few posts and havent even mentioned things like emergency stop procedures or decent lights but i could go on for ever and then none of you would feel safe doing anything.
If any of you want further advice on machining, safety or any other aspects i am very willing to help you all, send me a pm or if you think its worth while to every one post up here and i shall bore you all again.
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by _Ethereal_ » 13 Jan 2005 5:55
i learnt how easy dremel cutting disks can break today, i had just replaced the disk, when i put my thumb on the side of the disk and it snapped in two; i guess i don't know my own strength
I guess i should start wearing gloves while using the lathe, i'm sick of getting burnt, but i'm to lazy to do anything about it, thankfully your post has inspired me to take propper safety precautions when using my metalwork machinery 
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by HeadHunterCEO » 13 Jan 2005 7:24
_Ethereal_ wrote:i learnt how easy dremel cutting disks can break today, i had just replaced the disk, when i put my thumb on the side of the disk and it snapped in two; i guess i don't know my own strength I guess i should start wearing gloves while using the lathe, i'm sick of getting burnt, but i'm to lazy to do anything about it, thankfully your post has inspired me to take propper safety precautions when using my metalwork machinery 
Those cut off disk are poor in quality
get the heavy duty cut off disks from black and decker
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by raimundo » 13 Jan 2005 10:40
Grinders attached directly to the armature of an electric motor will spin at either 1750 or 3400 rpm. If the motor has a belt and pully, and the big pulley is on the armature of the motor, the grindstone is going even faster. People do get killed by grindstones flying apart, its not uncommon. In the old days the stones could fly apart just from the unbalance caused by sitting with the water on the stone settling on the lower edge. If you have a grindstone that is belt and pulley driven, put the large pulley on the grindstone, and the small one on the motor, this will slow the rpm of the stone but also add torque to it. grindstones work at slower speeds, don't be impatient, you can probably do better work if you are not in a hurry. For some reason, most bench grinders are set up so that the operator is directly downrange of where the broken stone will fly, It is not impossible to design a grindstone that can be used from a 45 degree angle to the spinning stone, you can mount your bench grinder this way, and it will give you a different profile of the work in progress as you use it, and you will not be the first thing a chunk of stone will hit if there is an accident.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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by Peaky » 13 Jan 2005 11:16
In the old days the stones could fly apart just from the unbalance caused by sitting with the water on the stone settling on the lower edge.
Thats why a wet stone should always be left (attended of course) running for a while so most of the coolant comes off. (as im sure you know raimundo)
I guess i should start wearing gloves while using the lathe, i'm sick of getting burnt, but i'm to lazy to do anything about it,
I know the feeling, what i do when useing tipped tools is i have a magnetic dti holder which instead of a dti has a piece of polycarb on the end of the arm, this can be placed on the cross slide and direct the swalf into the tray instead of out at you, not a substitute for glasses or anything but stops you getting burnt, another trick is to clamp a flat bit of thin plate with the tool underneath in the tool holder with the end bent up, you can achive a 'guard' that diverts the chips away from you, with a bit of experimentation you can get the 'guard' quite small and it directing the swalf away from you and not bouncing back hitting the work piece
raimundo a few years ago a mate invented a way of making sure you wore your safety glasses whilst useing power tools, it worked on a princable of sensors on the glasses being a set distance away from the power tool for it to work (or somthing like that, he was very private about the electronics as he didnt want it copied) he wrote to black and decker, bosh and makita and 2 didnt reply and he had a meeting with one of them (b+d) they loved the idea but said the cost of manufacture wouldnt make them enough money on the end product so wouldnt take it on!!! i agree with what you are saying about the grinders but if the manufactuers are making money as is, they wont be bothered changing the tools unless legislation makes them (unfortunatley)
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by 99atlantic » 14 Jan 2005 16:48
for regular (i.e., non-industrial, etc..) grinding when making picks, is it advisable to just have googles, or get an entire face mask?
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