creative thinkers help out

[raimundo]

for some time I have been thinking about snap guns and plug spinners, and the possibility of making a combination that snaps the pins and then triggers the spinner. I have no real manufacturing shop, just hand tools, so I try to design around things that have already been manufactured.
Bump keys as discussed in the recent paper, are much like snappers or pick guns in their intended effect. The bump keys have to fit a specific keyway, and the snapper fits them all. Yesterday, in the kitchen, I looked at a potato peeler knife, the type that seems to have been common for decades, with a slotted blade sharp on the inside, in a stamped and welded handle. The slotted blade on the one I was looking at was wider than the more common slot, creating a thicker peeling. I thought that if it was cut off and filed it could be something like a split tensor, but equally, if the spindle tang that runs through the handle were replaced by a clothes pin snapper, the two tips of the handle that restrict the limited movement of the peeler blade could be filed down to create a split tensor, and with a rubber front bumper, like the one on the multilock bump key, the handle could contain a snapper, and also be used like the handle of the bump key is used for tension. This is not the original idea of a spinner hitting at just the right time, but it is close, I am putting this here in hopes that some of the other creative thinking pickmakers on this site might look at the potato peelers in their kitchens and possibly come up with some more ideas for this approach or even be inspired in some new unexpected way.

[oldlock]

Why would you want to

The purpose of the spinner is to spin a plug back past the shearline when it has been picked the wrong way .

Paul

[MrB]

I have spent a lot of time trying to think of a simple mechanism that would allow the lock to be snapped with no tension on the plug, and then spin the plug momentarily after the snap.

I can't quite visualise your idea with the potato peeler, but if I read it a few more times it might come to me.

Unfortunately at the moment I don't have much in the way of facilities to make stuff (like not even a bench or a vice) so my ideas are mostly in my head.

Do commercial snap guns do anything like this already? Or do you have to manually apply tension?

[WhiteHat]

Why would you want to

The purpose of the spinner is to spin a plug back past the shearline when it has been picked the wrong way .

Paul

I think the idea here is to create a tool that you can insert into the lock one handed and it will open (just like you see in the movies) it would snap, and a very minute fraction of a second later it would turn the plug a small bit. so there would be a snapper prong and a tensor prong comming out of the pick gun or whatever it looks like.

I'm not sure if it would have great success because often you need to pulse the tension a little bit (although theoretically constant tension _should_ work) and sometimes you need to pivot the gun up and down slightly to adjust to different bitings.

so to create it, you'd need a mechanism that when triggered would wind a rotational spring and pull back on a flicking spring simultaneously. possibly this would require more movement than a standard pick gun trigger....

am I on track here or way off?

[Romstar]

Nope,

You pretty much got it on the head Whitehat. It's similar in idea to my electric pick with the exception of being a purely mechanical device.

My pick gun is hand held, has a variety of different tension heads, and is designed to be used on handed. Oh, I suppose Raimundo's idea is actually to have a mechanical tension/spinner but the idea is the same.

When a pick gun is used perfectly, in the manner for which it was designed there is a brief moment when all the driver pins are up into the cylinder, and the bottom pins are in the plug. This is the intended result of course.

It is at that moment that tension should be applied to the lock, and the lock should then turn open.

The problem with that is timing, and mechanical limitations. Often all the pins don't go up, or you are too early, or too late with the tension. Other factors such as keyway construction, varying spring tensions, ball bearings and other things cause the pins not to act in the desired fashion. This is of course the intended effect of these parts and schemes.

Raimundo's idea is to remove that bit of guessing, and to also allow the user to have a single tool that will be usable with one hand.

I think it's a great idea, and I hope he does something with it.

Romstar

[BrownLeopard]

Sounds like it might work. What about something with a trigger. Think old dual action. When pulling the trigger, the first set-point snaps, and the second twists.

[Romstar]

Actually, I was thinking double action, with a wind up.

Wind the spinner component, and then the trigger will activate the needle, and then the spinner. If the lock didn't open, the spinner isn't going to turn too much, so you do it again.

A small ratcheting gear on the spinner spring will allow the tension/spinner to reset each time you release the trigger. That way, it will function properly while still maintaing the winding until the pins set.

Romstar

[BrownLeopard]

Well, we're on the same page at least. Yeah, have to have the spinner spring loaded for sure. I was just thinking along the lines of the triggering mechanism, and actually, this could be made with basic hand/shop tools.

[silent]

Why not just an adjustable spring on the front with a stip of metal on it for the keyway? (Like a homebrew pick gun unfolded but a lot smaller) The gun would have to be custom built to hold the spring tensioner though.

[BrownLeopard]

Could be built on a metal frame, would have to be something like tubular steel, that way everything else could be welded to the frame.

[Peaky]

You wouldnt actually need to have the plug spinner part rotating at the precise right moment, you could have a blade that is fastened to the front of your pick gun which you would put into the keyway with a twist on it which would put a tension on the lock all the time, then when snapped and the pins are set the lock should open,

You could have the blade in a piece of round stock fitted into a tube (allmost like a ballrace) you could then have the outer part fixed to the snapper leaveing the inner part which has the blade connected free spinning, then all you would need is a cap head bolt with a thumb turn on the end which goes through the outer tube and clamps the inner one, this would allow you to adjust the tension on the keyway and allow you to find the right amount.

[Peaky]

A better example instead of a ballrace is a die in a die holder, the die can spin (if only the splitter bolt is in place) until the bolt is tigtened down, in this case the die holder would be fastened to the front of the snapper and the die would have the blade in it.

[raimundo]

and the snapper would trigger coil spring release, possibly through the set screw hole that holds the Die? I think i am seeing how this could work, but the picture is not clear yet. For those who are not following, the die holder is for a screw threading die, and in the case of the spinner mounted in that holder, it would be a heavy coil spring, with the snapper through the center of it. Somehow rigged to trigger by the snapper just after the pin strike. we still need to turn it over in our minds a bit before we have a design.

[Peaky]

Almost, i meant that a peice of say a wiper blade would be soldered into the centre bit (the die) and the twist put on that blade should be good enough to put tension on the keyway all the time, when the snapper sets all the pins the tension would already be there without any drive from the gun itself.

I will do a quick sketch and post a link to it later.

[MrB]

If you put tension on the lock all the time, then won't any security pins tend to catch when you snap it, and reduce the effectiveness of the snap gun?

The cute thing about snapping with no tension on the lock is that there is no friction or resistance to the movement of the pins at the instant the lock is snapped.