Looking for advice from UK locksmiths.

[Hyperion]

Hello to one and all..

Few basic questions really...

As you will of figured out from the topic title, I live in UK/England.

I am very much interested in starting some form of training, along with my own home personal practice, and the ideal situation for me would be to get some form of apprenticeship with an English locksmith, or for starters some form of locksmith course in the UK/England.

Now whether the course is attended or a correspondence course via the mail or online, is irrelevant really, as I am basically after getting a start..

I am very much after creating myself a life time career here, and I am not a teenager or under-age so to speak, so if I am going to do this, I need to get started.

Any help from English Locksmiths would greatly appreciated, such things as mail address, apprentice/job boards or similar were one could search UK listed employment opportunities within the industry.

From reading many of the sites/forums posts etc, I see there are a number of English/UK residents here within the trade and/or hobbyists.

As I say, any advice would be greatly appreciated...
I am 33 years of age and a father of one, and I am after a career change, something stimulating and that I would very much enjoy doing.

I also understand the ramifications of what is termed on this site/forum as [the dark side of the industry / subject matter] and I can understand peoples reluctance to talk to strangers about such a topic as this.

However I am not after tips or anything like that, I amhowever looking for a way into the industry within my own country, or at the very least, a push in the right direction...

I am willing to correspond via email or messenger with anyone legitimately interested in chatting and advising myself on the subject of this topic.

Thanks in advance...
Hyperion

[EvoRed]

Hi,

You'll find an apprenticeship very difficult to find so your best bet is to attend a training course to learn the skills needed and then practise, practise, practise.

Talk to Pinky on here, he runs various courses, which can be seem on his website here and he is both honest and affordable so you'll struggle to get a better course for the money...

Don't believe it's cheap starting out either. I've been going nearly a year now and have spent over £20k already and the income from this first year won't be a lot. A lot of people start out doing another job too to supplement their income as, unless you've got sufficient funds to see you through the early stages, you will not be able to live on your locksmithing income alone.

Good luck.

[gee252]

If you search this site their are loads of post's regarding training in the uk and they will point you in the right direction.
spend time and go through these post's but be under no illusion setting up as a "proffesional" locksmith is not as straight forward as some will lead you to believe but if you have got the persiverance and lots of money it is possible.

[Peaky]

To answer your actual question,

Dont go into training people for a number of reasons you will see on this site,

If you are serious and hell bent on going down this route, you will have a lot of competetion, have to teach a non-destructive course which could take you years to learn yourself,

Times the locksmith standard set up costs by around 5 to get anywhere near a decent school together,

You will have to go on most of the courses offered around the country to get any chance of a decent knowledge base that could teach someone regardless of which area they are from,

Practice, Practice, Practice, you will not be able to teach an effective course until you know it all like the back of your hand,

Unless, of course you are planning on setting up a drilling school then you will do it in a lot less time with a lot less skill but will not be welcome by the more respected locksmiths out there or most people on here.

Search the site for threads about setting up training schools and you will see what is thought of it and what you will need to do.

As mentioned Pinky would be a good place to start but you need advice from an awful lot more trainers before you decide, be prepared you may not like what you hear.

[Hyperion]

Thanks for the advice so far I hadn't realised just how expensive the training was going to be.

Any ways just a quick pointer to, "Peaky2 I think you got my original post's meaning wrong I am not after setting up my own training school for teaching people the art of being a locksmith, but rather after some form of training myself, or entry into the industry at ground level.

Thanks all the same though

Regards Hyperion

[toomush2drink]

Read my sticky in the faq section and dont even expect to make a fortune to begin with as the market is flooded with people like yourself after a career change.
Expect to invest at least 10k to begin with and a whole lot more than that over time. Training is available in many places but pinky is a good start and then you have to practice like mad to get your skills up and dont expect the phone to start ringing from a couple of adverts as it doesnt work like that.

[Peaky]

Phew thats a relief, sorry it was you first line that threw me off I am very much interested in starting some form of training, along with my own home personal practice, I took this to mean you want to start 2 differant buisnesses

[pinky]

before you even consider training, first research your area, how many people how many lockeys etc etc, see if you have a chance of making a living.

then work out your set up budget, read the thread on this, it is an expensive business to get into properly, and unless you make the right decisions now, then you will either pay for it or it will finish you later on.

use the search function, and read , then digest and consider your options, if still keen , make your choice of training firm and get stuck in, but with eyes open wide.

[Hyperion]

Allot of you are very negative about the prospects of the business aren't you!!! or is it just an anti beginner thing?

How come?

I tell you what I am getting of off a few of the people who replied to my post... That's if you don't mind me being so bold as to comment..

I am getting a vibe similar to something like,
"This is our business not yours, you have no right to be here, it's for certain types of people only, and there are far to many of us for our liking as it is."

I mean don't get me wrong lol, I am not being vindictive or anything here,
and I am definitely not trying to alienate myself in a forum I just got acquainted with lol, I am just trying to work out what's coming back at me; It strikes me as there is almost an element of jealousy type vibes coming across, kind of like someone saying,
"It's all mine, mine I tell you, you cant have any of it." lol

I mean on a realistic note, most business are hard going at the beginning, many small types fail, on a daily basis no less, but isn't life all about doing what one finds stimulating, and what one enjoys?? or at the very least having a go at some point in your life, at that something you find stimulating and challenging?

I mean perhaps I will just do it for something to do on the side, or maybe as just a hobby, or maybe I will go at it full pelt and start my own business, I am far from decided yet.

I just know one thing at the moment, I am keen to learn, very interested in the whole concept of locksmithing, not criminally minded at all, if that's what people are thinking when replying, and generally I just want to start learning more on the subject as soon a possible

If I got on anyones nerves because I am beginner looking for advice in what is a taboo topic, then I apologise lol

But I thought this place was an open forum for discussion which can, and often does in these sorts of places, lead to advice for beginners in the subject at hand, as well as being a gathering and information place for people already well entrenched within the subject area.

Once again if I got on anyones nerves for being new to the subject, well I can only say sorry for being la late arrival

My Regards

Hyperion

[MrB]

Well as one who has been reading this forum for a while, I think your fears are not entirely justified. I feel you are indeed being given honest opinions.

From what I read, there are many people around at the moment telling people that they just have to do a two week training course or something like that and then they can easily make hundreds or thousands a week. This is flooding the market with very inexperienced people attempting to trade and do work beyond their ability.

What this means in turn is that to get work, reputation is everything. The companies that issue work on contract are a good source of income, but they are increasingly selective over who they use, given all the cowboys around.

Now, to be reasonably able to do many kinds of job in the trade, you need a fairly large and expensive set of tools, and that on top of good training and experience, so the start up costs are high. And unless you are experienced and have a good reputation, don't be too optimistic about the kind of income you can generate.

So what people are telling you is keep your eyes open and consider carefully. It is a hard business to succeed in. But if you really do want to try, I think the people here are really quite helpful about how to get going in the UK. Read some of the old threads and stickies and see how much information is there.

[And just to mention, I don't live in the UK at the moment, and I have no connection with any kind of locksmithing business.]

[oldlock]

You are getting good advice here - take it.

I did 10 years as a self employed locksmith in the UK & was sucessful - but if you think it is going to be easy - or cheap to do then you are going to be in for one hell of a shock.

Paul

[Hyperion]

No I new from the get-go that if I ever wanted to take it to business level, then it was going to cost heavy to get started, and that was just tools alone; with training costs on top I new it wasn't going to be cheap..

The advice given is taken in and understood, it's just that I automatically got the feeling from the replies, that people didn't want me or any other newbies/beginners or what-ever anyone wants to call somebody starting out at something, at this site..

I can also quite understand a business market being flooded by half trained job leachers nicking pro's business, I can well understand peoples fears and hates of such a thing..

I just got this wave of, "GO-AWAY WE NO LIKE YOU" coming at me from the replies lol.

Any ways...

Regards...
Hyperion

[Romstar]

Hyperion,

Spend a lot of time talking to Pinky, and the others on this forum. You will find what you need, where and when you need it.

Pinky's courses are some of the best from what I understand, and I think you will get a wealth of information from him.

I am sure that if you get into this properly that you will be quite welcome into the trade.

Romstar

[gee252]

Hyper, your comments are unfounded, first of all I am not a trading locksmith athough it is my assperations to be come one.
As long as i have been a member here i have had nothing but good friendly advice and help from trading locksmiths and hobbyist.
some times it's not what you want to hear but it is an honest opinion.
I,ve been learning the locksmith trade well over a year now and probaly
could set up tomorrow trading and be as good as a lot of the people out there but i will do it when i am ready and feel i have reached a level where i know i can offer a proffesional and competent service.
A lot of the replys you have had are from trading lockys but they don't treat it as a closed shop they are guys who are trying to make the locksmith trade respected again which at the moment its being dragged down by people going on ill informed courses run by people who are just after there money and giving little back in return.
My advice mate is to take the comments constructively and all on here will be willing to help.
Regards, Graham

[pinky]

i too think your coments are unfounded, it is very rare in this industry for anyone to share any information with you at all, let alone give you honest and unbiased fact and for a change the truth.

firstly alot of people go on alot of courses that can only be described as a complete con, there to show you nothing and charge the earth, they are usualy 1st class at marketing and selling and reel you in with promises of you will earn £2000 pw , they will offer to teach you a whole industry in a few days, one even sells you a worthless bit of paper, suggesting that you are a fully city and guilds qualified locksmith in just a few days, by the time you go to your first jobs and you realise you cant get in or you were never shown this type of lock, or you just havnt a clue, its too late , you have lost your money and cant afford further training.
you will actualy learn far more from this site than you will learn from 75% of the training courses out there.

if you plan on being a competent locksmith, hobbiest , whatever , this site and industry would welcome you, if you just became another part of the industry problems it wouldnt, only you can decide this.

based on just 2 training companies that between them train up to 25 people a month, thats 300 people a year, out of these 300 people less than 10% actualy look at starting up, 7% really go for it, and 5% are still in business a year later, this is because they come along to a course believing that a magic harry potter tool exists that opens everything in seconds, a bit like james bond, then the rose coloured spectacles are removed and they realise that even following a course they are not ready to trade, they then need months and years of practice to perfect the methods learnt before they can even think of tradeing and earning a living. when they realise how much money is involved in setting up , tools further training advertiseing etc they just cannot fund it and give up.

i train nobody unless they come to me with eyes wide open and understand what they get from me, what they need to practice and how much is involved before set up, this is called being honest, not trying to keep you out of the industry. i wont rip anyone off , a customer nor a trainee, no false promises, no false hope and no lies. anyone comming to me does so with eyes wide open, knowing exactly whats in front of them, this is why the con men are rich and i still work in excess of 80 hours a week to survive.

read the many posts on here about the truth in setting up, the cons , the costs and the truth about the business. yes for an experienced , trusted , knowledgeable and established locksmith the rewards can be high , but for the new locksmiths generaly only the costs are high, to get to this stage takes an eternity and not many can afford to take the plunge full time with no other source of income to rely on.

fact , going back some years now , it wasnt unexpected for a locksmith to get 10 to 20 calls a day from their advertiseing and big money was earnt by all, now due to the influx of people entering the industry and the drilling killing cowboys too, the average locksmith now, rather than expecting 10 to 20 calls a day feels lucky if they recieve this many call outs a month.

how long it takes to make a good living depends heavily upon area you live in. how committed to practice you are, very little else, your ability and your tool and stock and advertiseing investment and stratergy.

so rather than get paranoid and think every one is trying to put you off, read the relevent posts on these subjects, digest , and be gratefull that at least one large group of people actualy tell you the truth about how it really is, all from their own experiences and in the hope that they can help you either avoid wasting your money or from makeing the mistakes that they made along the way.

this forum is all about truth , facts , and sharing of info, good and bad, you asked a question and from what i can see , you have been answered honestly and factualy, what you now do with this info is entirely your choice, as is your decision to enter industry, you will recieve support from this site like no other, but it wont always be what you want to hear.