opening a non riveted lock body

[bigbike]

Hello gang,
I am new here and new to locksmithing and want to understand and examine the inner workings of locks. I have 2 locks that I would love to take apart but am not sure how. One is a simple brass body common lock with no visible rivets. The other is a combination lock-typical round body style. Again no rivets holding the body together and I want to leave as much of the body in tact as possible but open enough of the casings so that the guts of how the lock works will be visible. Any suggestions?

[MrB]

The easiest locks to take apart are typically door locks, especially deadbolts.

Padlocks, for obvious reasons, are designed not to come apart. Some padlocks are designed to be rekeyed, and in that case when you open the shackle there is a little grub screw that can be unscrewed to release the cylinder (or just the plug, I'm not sure).

For padlocks that are not designed for rekeying, you have to resort to cutting with a dremel, or filing down the rivets, or cutting into the brass body with a milling machine, or something like that. If you search the site here, you will find photos of cut-away padlocks that might give you an idea of how to do it.

If you have a round body Master combination lock, the back plate can be drilled through or cut around the edge to let you see the inner workings.

[stick]

The back of the Master combo lock can also be removed by taking a very thin screwdriver and shoving it between the back plate and the edge holding it on. Just work your way around half the circumference, and it should be easy to pop off afterwards. I'll post a picture of mine tomorrow.

[rayman452]

I have no experience with locks untill a few days ago. I'm proablly the best person to help you. Don't work on combination locks, if that was what the master lock was about, use a padlock or a deadbolt. It is best for you to use a deadbolt, and make sure it's not attached to a door. Try and make it a kwikset, from what I've read, their the best beginers. Now take out the screws from the part where theres the knob to open the lock, like the part on the inside of your house. When thats off, remove the deadbolt if its on, if not, just get to the part where the key goes. That part should have a black "stick" comming out of it. If its a kwiskset, on the top of the lock with the keywhole, where the pin casings are, you should see a SILVER coloured piece of metal, which is encasing the springs and the pins. Use a screwdriver and pop that open, but use moderate force to do that. Make sure you do this somewhere incase the pins and springs fall out. Then, your able to take out the last 4 pins, from the far back, so that you can practice on one pin. If you care about the key working, make sure you remember the position of the pins you took it out from. If not, and your like me, just drop the pins out, and remember the beveled points go at the bottom of the lock, and the perfectly cylinderacle ones are ontop of it, to go against the shear line. If you have problems still, tell me and ill get a few pictures.

[raimundo]

If you have a brass padlock with a brushed metal finish, look carefully along the thin sides for a series of round spots that may be of a very slightly different color metal, should be five small ones in a row, and one larg one near the shackle. the five small ones are press fit caps over the pin tumbler installation, and if removed, these will dump the pins an springs. the larger one is the installation port for the locking dogs, on the opposite edge, you may find another that is the pin that holds the cylinder in. ON very old padlocks, with intaglio escutcheons on the broad front, the entire design is a port cover, press fit very tightly. If you cannot see the difference in metal color along the edge of the padlock, take a stainless steel spoon and beat the edge rapidly striking a different point alone the center of that edge with each rap, strike with the smooth rounded bottom of the spoon. this will drive some of the pin hole caps or the locking dog port down a little further from the flat brushed metal surface, and you will be able to see a small circular line of the edge of the hole where the pin sunk deeper that the surrrounding surface. Look very close to see these. If you want to hide it again, use a file to resurface the entire side of the lock. About that advise on opening a master combination padlock, there is a thin stainless cap that is very strong on the back of the lock, not easily removed, but possible, and beneath it is another layer, which cannot be removed without destroying the lock, as this piece is the part of the lock that the varous axles and other mechanical stops are riveted to. at best you will only get a small view hole if you should grind off part of the edge, I recommend that you find a schematic diagram of the internal parts before decideing where to make such a hole.

[stick]

http://tinypic.com/1hvvj9

That's my combo lock. After you take off the back plate, there'll be two holes. The round one allows you to see the gates, and if you forget your combo, which is what I did, you can just look through that hole and get it again.The long rectangular one just shows part of the shackle, and isn't really that important. You can see enough through the small circular hole to figure out exactly what goes on in the lock, but if you want to take that plate of metal off, you'll probably have to take out the Dremel. I don't have one, so I haven't had a chance to try yet.

[MrB]

Raimundo, any thoughts on how to remove those pin caps on a brass padlock? Perhaps drill a very small hole in the centre and pull them out with a self tapping screw?

[digital_blue]

Here are some pics of a Master combo lock I opened up using my Dremel with a cut wheel. One thing I'll mention is that the layer underneath the thin tin outer casing is really tough so I had to go quite slow with the cut wheel.



The second pic shows you the insides with the wheel gates aligned.



Sorry for the low quality of the pics... the only digital cam i have is my Palm.

Hope this helps.


db

[bigbike]

Thanks gang,
I was successful in picking apart the the combo lock I got yesterday and then picking it by watching the cutouts line up on the wafers inside. I am gonna try and cut apart the outside edges of both this combo lock and the brass padlock tommorrow with a dremel tool.

What do you folks think about the "practice boards" that are being sold by various places. Some come with 2 or 3 locks, can be ordered with a cut away style lock, others come with like 5 locks installed in a piece of wood. All these are for practice. I was thinking it would be better to get my own plywood and build one with various different locks in various different places on it. That way I could alway practice my picking skills. I see most of these boards start at like $70 (with 3 locks on em) and go up from there. I can buy a lot of locks and plywood for that kinda money.

[skold]

I'd make your own.. currently i am making a cutaway case for my Abloy Protec padlock cylinder.

the case ( or board if you prefer) will be made out of blackwood or radiata pine with locks lined along the top in various postions all of which
will be cutaways of the high security kind.

[stick]

It's veeery easy to make your own. Definitely not worth the $50+ they charge per lock. Buy a dremel instead, if you don't already have one, and make all the cutaways you want. Easiest to make cutaways with mortise locks, which are easily available on eBay if you're looking for them cheap.

[bigbike]

Cool! I appreciate that advice and have now started collecting my lock picking victims (er I mean learning devices!)

I am having a great deal of difficulty with cutting the side out of my brass padlock. I am using a dremmel with diamond cutting edges and still the body will not give it up. the tool goes deep and no end in sight (I mean, no inner workings in sight). I will keep trying, after all it is why I bought a cheapo lock.

[digital_blue]

I found that with the brass shell and brass plug, it's hard to tell when you get to the shear line, and the cut wheel will probably end up grinding the two together into one continuous-looking piece of brass which makes it even harder to know when to stop.

I wish I had a solution. As yet, I have been unable to make a cutaway of a brass lock, so I willbe following this thread closely.

I am particularily curious about how you manage to cut into the pin chambers without destroying the pins. This seems like an utter impossibility. I can understand if it is a re-keyable padlock, but if not, I don't see a way.

db

[stick]

Just an idea, but you could try cutting close to the shear line, then using a grinder attachment for a dremel and slowly grind away until you can see the pins. With patience, it may work out well.

[MrB]

I think you probably have to work along the lines of raimundo's suggestion. Remove the pin caps, springs and pins, and then remove the plug (but how to release the plug?).

With an empty brass shell, cut a window with the Dremel. Then cut away matching parts of the empty plug. Finally, clean and deburr everything, and reassemble.

Note: I have not done this, it is just hypothetical. But I don't see how to make a good cutaway without first dismantling the lock.