how locks respond to picking.

[RoyalFlush]

*WARNING THIS IS LONG. *
I am somewhat new to picking locks. However, I have read quite a bit of material on the subject and have picked many locks (mostly pin tumbler locks and one or two wafer tumbler locks). I have read a lot so that why it makes me feel I should know the answers to my question but I don't so hopefully someone can help me. My first question is what is the name of the part of the lock the actually goes into the wall. (the part you are retracting to allow the door open). My other questions refer to this (and I will call it "X") how the lock responds to picking so hopefully you are up to speed with me. What is happening in a lock that when you pick it:

1) Only the "X" is slide back but the door knob or handle still won't turn.
2) You turn the knob to retract the "X" but afterwards the lock is still locked.
3) You turn the knob to retract the "X" but this time the door stays unlocked.
4)Why does the entire plug come out sometimes
5)Is it possible to pick a lock so the next time you try and pick the lock it becomes harder to pick or impossible to pick even though a key still works?

The only reason I asked the last question is the very very first lock i picked was pad lock and after i got it once i kept doing it to get faster and faster and I picked it like 100 times or so but then i couldn't pick it anymore because the pin would get pushed in and i tried everything i knew at the time, and still couldn't get it thought the key would still work. (I only actually picked each pin back then instead of raking or tapping). Also this happend to me recently, on a door i picked it like six times or so (not back to back, each time under 40 seconds with a rake pick) but one time when i went i could do it anymore. But then finally i got it by tapping/raking/picking but it was very difficult.

Thank you for anyone who spent the time to read this. I just want to more about why things happen in my hobby.

[D_Shane]

The part that goes into the wall would be the latch bolt.

1) Only the "X" is slide back but the door knob or handle still won't turn.

I think you mean forcing the latch into the door through the gap at the door frame. Bypass, shimming... people call it different things. If the lock is installed and adjusted properly, it doesn't work.

2) You turn the knob to retract the "X" but afterwards the lock is still locked.

Storerroom or exit doors. Where the lock always remains locked. Once a key is removed the door is still locked. The doorknob always turns from the inside.

3) You turn the knob to retract the "X" but this time the door stays unlocked.

Offices, houses, etc. where there is a button or thumb turn to lock or unlock the door from the inside. Once the door is unlocked it remains unlocks until relocked with the key or button/turn on the inside.

4)Why does the entire plug come out sometimes

Some locks have removable cores that are removed with a special key. There is a "control" line is essentially another shear line that will remove the plug, and you are picking to the control line not the shear line to unlock the door.

5)Is it possible to pick a lock so the next time you try and pick the lock it becomes harder to pick or impossible to pick even though a key still works?

Not on purpose. Picking tools scratch and mar the surfaces of the pins, and tension can deform the pins, both making them hard to slide freely. Giving you false sets, or altering the pins in such a way that it is very difficult to reach the shear line, but the key, under no tension, can allow the pins to sit at the right height until the plug is turned. Raking, or rapping can still work because you are raising multiple pins at once, then setting tension which gets around the damaged areas of the pins.


I think this is what you wanted. If not- reword the question or be more specific on a certain and I'll/we'll try again.

[RoyalFlush]

D_Shane thats for taking the time to answer the questions. You answered pretty much all of the them but I don't think I made my self clear on one of them.
The first question. I meant that you still actually pick the lock (not bypass or shimm the latch) and when you turn the plug and try to open the door you only pull on the door instead of twisting the knob because the latch bolt has already retracted by the turning of the plug. (One of the doors I picked that this occured still had a thumb turn on the inside though the inside always turned and wouldn't unlock the tumb turn when you turned the inside (never had the actual key to see what that would do to the lock).

The above question would be case of a storeroom door (question 2 originally) would it not? So then if the key was used would you still twist the knob to open that door after turning the plug. Even though it had a thumb turn.

One other thing, I also meant like what inside the lock makes each door act differently like that. I mean what is in a storeroom door to stay locked after turning the plug compared to a house lock where it stays unlocked after turning the plug.

Either way Thank you alot. You did answer my question and now I do have a better understanding, and I also appreciate you telling me what types of doors those locks are usually on. Though I have seen doors that do not have thumb turns or button on the inside that still stay unlocked after I pick them. But I guess there would always be those sorts of things.

[D_Shane]

Wow, you have a much better understanding than I thought you did, hence the reason for basic descriptions.

Clarifying the first question then, there are several different types that will work it that fashion. The hub assembly being different, some can be converted from one entry to another by changing the tailpiece, hub assembly, etc. For the lock you mentioned, if you mean when the thumb will rotate but not unlock or lock the door, it sounds like it was converted. If you mean that the button turn does not unlock the outside when the inside knob is turned, sounds like the turn need to be rotated.

As for turning the knob after you turn the key, I have seen both. Turning the knob and the key I see more in hotel style, mortise locks where there are two separate latches, one with the knob and one with the key. On a single knob though, it would be the key turning without having to turn the knob.

Some locks have a dual action type of inner lock. Push the button locks the door but will unlock when the inner handle is used. Push and turn the button and it keeps it in the locks position even if the inner handle is used.

The difference between the functions are the internal parts.
I guess the easiest way to explain it would be to picture the cylinder with a tailpiece that connects to the handle. It keeps the handle from turning and the handle connects to the latch bolt.
And then a tailpiece that instead of connecting to the handle, connects directly to the latch bolt.
If you take an entry lock apart you can see how if you put a different tailpiece on, it would work the latch itself, instead of the handle.

If that makes sense anyway.

That almost makes enough sense in my head.

[RoyalFlush]

Thanks for the help. What you told me makes sense and I don't really know why I couldn't put it together. Now looking back it seems to obvious but for some reason my brain couldn't put it together. Anyway thanks for your help.

[raimundo]

X is a bolt. there are variations, a deadbolt cannot be retracted without turning the plug of the lock if it is properly fully set, and the lever drops down behind it. you will not accidentally lock yourself out with one of these, you cannot lock your key inside, since you need it outside to lock the door. and they never come with a knob.
A latch is a shorter spring loaded bolt that is always ready to click shut behind you so take your keys when you go out even to the front steps. (here in minnesota, where the temperature can be very cold, people learn this well.)
A deadlocking latch has a second smaller part behind the diagonal face of the bolt and this will not fit into the strike plate (metal piece on the doorframe that the bolt goes into) When a deadlocking latch shuts, it cannot be shimmed back with wires or plastic cards, because of this deadlocking feature, but because of the short throw of the bolt and often the loose fit of the door in the door frame, or flex in the doorframe, these are not really secure. before installing one, try to find a place on the door frame that is directly on one of the wooden shims that fit the door frame in place, so that the boards of the door frame cannot be sprung apart opposite the deadlocking latch.
Key in knob locks are always some type of latch, with a short bolt, that may possibly be sprung back with wires or plastic cards. These can be set to lock always, open only by turning the key, not the knob, (typical on the front door of an apartment building) or on a house, you may have the type of keyinknob that can be left unlocked, and is controlled by a key from the outside or by a button on the inside.