European lock question

[Hitman666]

...hy

am i mistaking or there is a big difference among european locks and us locks....

from what i saw on the net ...in guides diagrams pics....usa locks are made pins up and key under em (how u insert the key )
while the european locks are key up pins under it ....

so i think its a big difference cuz in all lockpick guides u r told that u pick the pin and when u reach the good position the pin drops while in euros ones it cant drop ...it just presses and stands lower,,,

am i mistaking or ..??


PLS DO NOT ERASE MY TOPIC AS ITS A RELEVANT ONE ...NOT BS

[Romstar]

In most cases (yes guys I know, there are exceptions) the pins being on the bottom or the top is strictly a matter of the way the cylinder is installed.

Certain locks, or cylinders are sometimes made to be "pins up" but by and large, the distinction is purely up to convention and the whim of the locksmith.

Romstar

[Hitman666]

maybe in canada ...but here in europe ....all the locks i see and saw are pins down ....and from what i think that makes em harder to pick

[Varjeal]

re: harder. Not necessarily it merely requires a slightly different method of sensing when the pin has been set properly. Even in a "pins up" situation, just because the bottom pin falls down it doesn't necessarily mean the stack has been set properly as a driver could be jammed across the sheer line.

[Eschatos]

On another note, there is a much more striking difference between Euro and US locks. Euro locks tend to have a more restricted keyway that hinders picking with many picks you can buy in the US. On SouthOrd, they sell "Euro" or "Slimline" picks specifically for a great number of European locks.

Man, I'd like to take a trip to Europe just for the new picking experiences I know I could have!

[master in training]

i bought some southord picks in america and they work fine on all the UK locks i've tried!

another difference is that in the UK we have lever locks, which seem to be practically unheard of in the US, another factor of pin tunbler locks is that in the US they seem to mostly be in the door handles, whereas in the UK they are seperate and fitted directly into the door.

[MrB]

The locks in the door handles or knobs are mostly intended for convenience. Only unwise people rely on those locks alone for security on external doors. Mostly, people fit an extra deadbolt in addition. Insurance companies tend to expect deadbolts to be fitted and give a discount when they are.

[RangerF150]

Pretty much every lock i've seen here , is fitted with the pins up!

I got a set of "euro" picks , for my first set , as that's what i was led to believe id need ( i live in Euorpe ! ) .

I then got a set ( Southard MPXS-62 ) and guess what ? All the euro picks i have in my first set are in the MPXS-62 set .

I can only go by Varjeals lock i bought off him , the keyway is exactly the same as my front door lock , which is pretty standard over here.

The "euro" lock is found on uPVC and some timber doors ( it's factory fitted ), but on regular doors its normally a Basta/Union type latch key lock.

The last lock i saw that had the pins facing down was a lock fitted incorreclty, i gave the chippie hell on that one

[master in training]

all of the YALE locks in my friends house are fitted pins faceing downwards (the pins are at the top of the lock as you look at it), but all his doors are wood, at my house all the doors are upvc with the pins the opposite way to the yales, the locks at my house have 4 C's on them like this;
CC
CC

so i think it mostly depends on the make of the lock itself which way they are installed, the only difference it makes to pciking is how familiar you are with the direction of the pins.

[Buggs41]

In the US, I think the main reason we install the locks with the key pins up, is due to the weather we have. Gravity works to drive water down. If the key pins get wet, and then the temperature drops to the freezing level, you now have a 'frozen' lock.

Just my guess as to why there is a difference.

[Buggs41]

Oh,

This also applies to electrical outlets. Some people want the 'ground' plug of the outlet to be facing up, and others prefer that it be facing down. So far, there is nothing in the electrical code that states what is required.

[Ives]

Here in belgium practicly all locks have the pins on the bottom. I also think its harder to pick a lock with pins down.

[MrB]

Sometimes, you can have too much expectation of "design" where none exists. Often things just get done on a whim, or because "it looks neater that way".

Ever been infuriated with door handles that push when you expect to pull?

Sometimes, a thing was done right long ago for good reasons, but later on people forgot all about the earlier wisdom and changed things around.

So perhaps in the beginning someone did think the pins should be up to avoid collecting dirt and water. If the pins are down in euro locks, it is probably because someone thought it would be neater and they didn't really know why they shouldn't do it that way.

[toomush2drink]

If you look at how a euro cylinder operates its cam you can see why its upside down. If it was up the other way i wouldnt be able to operate the basic lever it operates in most lock bodies. There are not many lever locks that have the levers upside down which is what you would need if the pins were at the top.Also it would mean the lock would then be above the handle on a sash lock.

[RangerF150]

Yeah , i just remembered .
When i went to the US and Canada, they open their doors "out" , not "in" like we do.

I kept pushin on them the whole time i was there
And off course when i was walking out of a building i was pullin on them

Why do they do silly things like that !!

Don't even start me on their drivin, them nuts drive on the "wrong" side of the road, i won't tell ya the havoc that caused

Dunno, i think they were glad to see the back of me !