my safe, how secure is it?

[master in training]

wow, you're braver than me! they are solid little safes, if you could post the pictures of it in pieces I'd find it really useful even if no-one else here does!

Thanks a lot!

[NKT]

http://www.officedevils.com/lock.html shows the inside of the lock, along with the inside of one of the little electronic safes.

[master in training]

wow!!

thats awesome!!

cheers!

[raimundo]

NKT writes about a double sided key with each of the cuts equal distance from the tip of the opposite cut, this makes me think that you could make a pick with pieces of this length through holes in the pick shaft and tightened with those nylon tip set screws, so that it could go into any lock of this type and just set it self up by turning a few trys, sort of like the way sliders on and ace pick work. I have seen something like this in stories about Falle or somewhere.

[acl]

NKT ,any chinese writing on the lock case?
Andy

[NKT]

Nope, no writing, nothing. The only ID was the little sticker you can see in OP's picture - the little silver sticker bottom right.

I don't think that trick would work, grinding things round, since the levers bind and move as one, rather than on individual springs.

I can also tell you that they have no false gates.

I'll strip it again if anyone really wants a better look.

[master in training]

I finally got the guts to strip down my safe to get a better view of it and try and make a pick for it, i have a simple southord set, so i'll need to make some curtain picks(? i think this is the name of them, i havent looked into it enough to make one yet!)

if anyone wants more info or anything, i'll do my best to help.

in response to my own question (sort of) the lock seems difficult to pick for myself, but anyone with a knowledge of these locks could probably have it open in a few seconds!

As with all my pics, sorry for the poor quality, i only have my phone for a camera.

[master in training]

hmm... that lack of editing point arises again...

anyway, i now know its not a curtain pick i need, but something else, its late now so i'll look round the euro forum tomorrow when i get some time and find out exactly what i need to pick this and how to pick it.

[NKT]

Ok, some tips:

The biggest issue is that the levers all move together. This is by design. Put a finger on the top lever, furthest from the spring, and push it upwards. See how you never know which others will move as well?

Try putting a little tension on with an Allen key or whatever. Now, the gates could be pushed up and down individually, but every time you push one, it will move the others.

Get each lever to bind in the gate, and you are sorted, and the bolt will throw.

Now try it without looking, when the lock is assembled!
---
There is actually a really simple bypass to this lock, but I'm loathe to put it on a public board like this. Plus, if you know the drill point, it is a thirty second job!

[acl]

NKT ,you used the "D" word ,you do know you can get executed for this dont you?!
The bypass method you mention ,does this involve any damage to the lock at all?
Andy

[kehveli]

Should this topic be discussed here altogether?

I mean this is a public forum and what are we talking about? Yes, safes and safe lock picking. I have understood that this kind of information should only be posted to the Advanced Forums. There is a separate forum ' Combination, Electronic, and Safes' whose description includes 'Safes lock picking techniques'. Thus I'm not sure whether it's correct to talk about this lock and it's pickings&bypassings here.

[master in training]

ok, im sorry if i wrote about a topic i shouldnt have

if any mods feel it necessary, they can lock the topic down or delete it or whatever they want to do, at first i was wondering more how secure it was for £10 since it was quite cheap but seemed well built and strong, but the topic sort of grew and i got wondering about picking it, but if its not supposed to be discussed in open forums, so be it.

i apologise to any mods who i caused more work for

[NKT]

kehveli,
I don't think that this is anywhere near the "safe drilling vs. manipulation" thread.

This box is £10! (I paid more, two years - £80, iirc, with a dial and lock safe) That is less than a 5 lever door lock. People should be aware of the limits of them.

As one of the mods said, you should take 10% of the cost of the goods and put that into the security. However, it is pretty hard to do when the price of stuff keeps dropping! I personally cannot believe, having worked with steel and locks, and electronics and many other areas, that a Far East factory can build a solid little box like this, then ship it to the UK and sell it on to Big W, who add a margin, then sell it for ten quid! :Shock: I couldn't make the box for that, even in quantity, let alone the lock.

Just look at the electronic mini-safes. I never saw a better false sense of security! Yet how many people use those, instead of something far better, like this box?

This isn't something secret, either. Anyone can blow ten pounds and buy one, and chop it up. This isn't a two ton safe, but it *is* a lot better than a cash tin (which has a crap wafer lock and costs more!) so people want to know about it.

Lastly, I don't have any special insight, just a lot of (often self-inspired) training in various areas, and a screwdriver. Anyone can do what I did, if they are smart enough.

Personally, I see the division between what should be public and what should be private as what can the average person afford? If the safe/lock/padlock costs more than £50, I would say keep it quiet, unless it is a real joke lock. Once below £50, anyone, like a thief, is likely to be motivated enough to get one and play with it if they come across them. It is impossible to stop that, and so free discussion should be encouraged, so people don't wind up putting £20,000 in one *and relying on that as security*

If we don't do that, we will never get better locks and security, it will always be "secured by the lowest bidder", and that is not the way to be!

[kehveli]

I was only talking about things I have understood from other posts. I'm not a mod of any kind so I'm not in a position to say if something is allowed or not. I only questioned the things discussed herein.

In addition to the lever lock, I was more worried about the bypass method you were talking about. From what I have read from the info restriction thread, I remember that at least there were discussions about bypass methods. Many said that bypass methods shouldn't be posted altogether.

I don't agree with you on the argument about the price. For example, anybody can just go and buy a safe grade combination lock from eBay for about 20$ and then figure out manipulation methods. Still, discussion about manipulation is not allowed here. Just look at the safes:manipulation thread to see how manipulation methods are treated on this forum. Although, now safe manipulation may have become a litlle more public topic because of the Matt Blaze paper.

I think you can agree with me on that price is not a standard by which security can be determined. So, if price is not the 'high security'-barrier, then what is it? This forum has formed its own standards. I have understood that these make any kind of safe bypass information a restricted topic. This does not mean that I agree on every aspect of this forums 'advanced-not advanced' rules, but I obey them as I'm a member.

You also say that you don't have any special insight. I think this is not an issue because much of the forbidden-in-the-open information can be obtained from other sources or own experience rather easily. At least I think so and there has also been discussion about this. Some have said that even if the information is already available at some obscure location, it should not necessarily mean that it can be posted here. We don't want to make safecracking/-bypassing information easily available to anyone.

This is only my understanding of the forum standards, some more experienced forumists can prove me wrong. This is a difficult topic and I feel that there should probably be better standards to determine what can be posted and what not.

[master in training]

i think we need a mod to look at the discussion and make a final decision on the subject, its probably the only way to settle this one and for all.