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copy a key without a key

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

copy a key without a key

Postby kennylt » 20 Feb 2005 10:57

i had this idea recently, that ist posible to make a kay for a lock if you have picked it. is there any cind of tools that you know about that are made for this purpuse? anyway i have made some egzamples of what it could look like tell what you think :)
[img=http://img135.exs.cx/img135/7540/thething0lu.png][/img]
and a flash :http://img25.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img25&image=mypick4ph.swf
(dont know if there allready is something like this)
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Postby kennylt » 20 Feb 2005 10:58

i'm not too good in html :D
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Postby Buggs41 » 20 Feb 2005 11:05

You can make a key for a lock that has been picked open. But you will have to disassemble the lock further. The plug needs to be removed so you can access the key pins. With the key pins out, you can then cut a key that will make them set the driver pins at the shearline.

If you can't pick the lock, another method is to 'impression' a key that will open it.
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Postby kennylt » 20 Feb 2005 11:25

well if my method works then the lock doesnt need to be disassembled but it requires allot of precision to work... by the way is this method ever been used or can i patnt it and become a multimilionear? :D
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Postby Buggs41 » 20 Feb 2005 11:29

Get your pic posted, and we can tell you more.
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Postby SFGOON » 20 Feb 2005 11:37

Both impressioning and decoding are techniques that are used to produce a working key from just the lock itself, and the methods for doing this are wide and varied. Try and post your pic, but odds are somebody will tell you the Falle-Safe or HPC have already invented it.
"Reverse the obvious and the truth will present itself." - Carl Jung
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Postby kennylt » 20 Feb 2005 12:24

well it's still a project i made it up a fiew hours ago but i cant see why it wouldnt work (it's simple...)
the only image is my drowing (a new one :D)
http://img219.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img219& ... can9ie.png
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Postby Romstar » 20 Feb 2005 15:27

What you have designed is a decoder, and it has been done. As soon as I find the link, I will post it.

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Postby bembel » 20 Feb 2005 15:46

a) I don't know why the pins would stop exactly at shear line (Tension?)
b) Pins usually don't have the same length
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Postby bembel » 20 Feb 2005 16:09

After thinking it over, please forget about b ;)
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Postby MrB » 20 Feb 2005 16:19

bembel wrote:a) I don't know why the pins would stop exactly at shear line (Tension?)
b) Pins usually don't have the same length


Just saw your follow up post, but I think the idea of a decoder that works as a kind of caliper is interesting, so I'll post anyway.

If you have picked the lock as mentioned in the original post, you can turn the plug. Then, with a suitable device, you can measure the height of each cut on the key by pushing the corresponding pin up until it stops. The distance from the bottom of the keyway to the tip of the pin is the appropriate cut height, more or less.
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Postby Sabin37 » 20 Feb 2005 17:24

It's cool that you thought of that yourself. If it was completely original, that would be awesome and if you did build it I think it would work. Since the apparatus is on a slider you would get the exact distances between pins. Good attempt at being innovative.:)
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Postby digital_blue » 20 Feb 2005 17:33

I love creative thinking. Good work kenny!

If you were to use a foil impressioning method (with a comb) after the lock was picked, you would very quickly have all the pin lengths and be able to cut a key from that.

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Postby Pickermeapie » 20 Feb 2005 21:20

I thought I saw that before. It was in lockmasters catalouge for decoding wafer locks on car doors. Works on same principal and does what you said, draws a profile of the key. http://www.lockmasters.com/download/autodecode.pdf Its on the second page, top first colum. SKT Wafer Reader.
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Postby Pickermeapie » 20 Feb 2005 21:29

and might I add, this is a very good design... In my opinion
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