my safe, how secure is it?

[NKT]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I said there was a possible bypass, but not what is was. Likewise, everyone knows if you turn the dial just so the lock will open - what more is there to know? Unless the lock has a fault, that is secure enough. However, if it has a real flaw, I would much rather know!

However, if (big IF!) it could be opened trivially, I would say so, regardless of the cost, be it a bike lock that opens with a bic, since bikes are stolen every day, or a £20,000 rated safe where the door falls open if you tap the dial, since a person's life could depend on it.

If, on the other hand, it takes 20 minutes or more of picking or dialling, then that is secure enough (for most jobs). The alarm and other security should have done the job by then, or else they will have had time to drill it!

I agree that cost isn't a big factor - however, people rely on this stuff - poor people too - and they should feel safe in the knowledge that the lock they rely on is ok, or that it is crap, and that they really should spring for the one that is $2 more but 10x more secure. Or even the one that is $2 less but more secure. I just feel a cap of £50 on a safe box is a reasonable limit. For a lock, perhaps a bit lower? But you can buy a lock in B&Q like most people, and pay £35 for a BS lock, or go elsewhere and get a lock to the same standard for the price of a 3 lever in B&Q.

Hence a rating system - see the thread viewtopic.php?t=6531. No details, just a rough rating of each lock, safe, etc.

[NKT]

MIT, you asked the question, and I answered it. I haven't told you how to beat it, quite the opposite. I've mentioned that there might be a bypass method, but I can no longer test it. I've stated the obvious, and said that if you know the drill points, you can drill it easily.

This is a ten pound safe. Is it worth the money? Yes. If the guys making it had done two trivial things, these would be far far more secure. The second one is keeping the price high, so that everyone couldn't afford to buy one to take apart.

Fix it danged solidly to a wall, and you will be fine. The steel is thick, the bolts are solid, and you won't find many who can pick that lock. Drilling blind would take an age, and even with a good cutting disc it will take a while.

[acl]

I didnt ask NKT what his bypass method was i only asked wether it would cause any damage to the lock.Of course id be interested in knowing this method,wouldnt you? but i didnt for one minute expect him to post it on an open forum.
I do agree that safe entry techniques should be restricted but if you think about it if an undesirable comes onto this forum he can find out how to gain entry to anybodies front door fairly quickly so where do we draw the line?
NKT if you fancy shareing that info pm me|
Andy

[MrB]

I have been around this site for a little while, so here are a few thoughts from me.

Only the existence of a bypass method was mentioned, not the actual method. Saying that something "can be done" is OK in the open forums.

I think a box costing £10 is perhaps more accurately called a "strongbox" than a "safe". We can also ask whether a thief would really consider picking the lock as a first attack? If the box is not securely bolted down, a thief can take it away and have all the time in the world to open it by force. If the box is bolted down, a house burglar will likely pass it by, since they want to be in and out as quickly as they can.

The restriction about discussing safe manipulation on the open forums is not all about security. There are many issues of politics and sensitivity within the locksmith trade that affect how safe manipulation is treated on this site. There are many areas of life where information gets treated with a sensitivity that is not always rational, so you have to tread carefully to avoid upsetting people.

Lastly, you can rest assured that if the moderators think too much is being disclosed, they will say something about it.

[NKT]

MrB,

The box used to cost £80, and has 6mm steel. It is sold as a safe. Now they are £10, I feel that they are a valid target for discussion. In the same way, once bio-metric locks are £10, they will become something to "pick" in the same way. Even if not here.

I understand the politics, and I hate it. Politics is a means of lying and cheating and stealing, but with enough justifusication that the politico doesn't get attacked or arrested. If I am asked to follow rules, I will, if they are laid out at the beginning, are (farily) clear, and, most importantly, I respect the rules. Otherwise I will decline. All that it takes for tyranny to prosper is for people to follow orders without question!

[kracker]

I'm presumeing you bought this safe to play with. If you intend to keep valuables in it, accepting that most people who read this site are honest, posting a picture of the safe key may not be the best thing to do.
Hope any dishonest guys out there don't know where you live!
Back to picking - to point you in the right direction, you need to make a two in one pick where the bolt thrower also picks up the last lever to the correct height (this lever will be the same height on all this make of lock).
This then allows the other levers to move independently although they will not be under spring tension. If this is the first safe lock you have tried, I would go for something a bit easier to start with.

[Magic_Joe]

This lock resembls a S&G type wafer lock, it is close to that type what I would try to do is put turning preasure on the bolt work (closest to the door) and lift each wafer feeling for a bind. It dose not look like there are any faulse gates on the wafers. This would not be a hard pick but it takes a good feel for the right tension.(med. to heavy)

[Richard Dragon]

This info should help you decide whether to "allow" disussion of certain topics in this forum:

I am not a total newbie to locksmithing, but neither am I an expert. I am just looking at things from a "not-totally-uninformed but with common sense" view.

The pictures of the key do not help that much. But from the design of the lock, even with the poor pictures, I can see how I could EASILY open this safe with a drill and a piece of wire in just a few minutes . . . without having to know any "specific" drill points.

Does this make the product completely unsecure, from a layman's point of view? Certainly not. On the other hand, it is pointless to censor discussion of things that just about anybody with a reasonably working brain can see for themselves.

[jackstone5291]

basically, there a couple ways that i would crack that safe by. the first one would be drilling directly into the key slot with an over sized bit and then slipping a large flat tip screw driver into where the old pin slots were and twist hard. the next way would be inserting a small explosive into the key slot and blowing it. last thing would be this stuff called thermite, this stuff is a powder that burns at 3000 degrees but the last two would be if u were carrying something big but if its just documents, most theifs wouldnt work that hard to get into a safe.

[treboR]

last thing would be this stuff called thermite, this stuff is a powder that burns at 3000 degrees.

[Chucklz]

I love it when noobs talk out of their ASSA's I think I need some more Medeco-tion.

[HeadHunterCEO]

I love it when noobs talk out of their ASSA's I think I need some more Medeco-tion.

medication good

[Chucklz]

basically, there a couple ways that i would crack that safe by. the first one would be drilling directly into the key slot with an over sized bit and then slipping a large flat tip screw driver into where the old pin slots were and twist hard. the next way would be inserting a small explosive into the key slot and blowing it. last thing would be this stuff called thermite, this stuff is a powder that burns at 3000 degrees but the last two would be if u were carrying something big but if its just documents, most theifs wouldnt work that hard to get into a safe.

Lever lock

[Chrispy]

Lever lock

[Richard Dragon]

Hey, Chucklz . . . I may be a "Noob" to this forum, but as I said before, I am not to locksmithing. I am familiar with lever locks, and picking methods for them. I even know how to reading "angles" of levers to line up the gates.

So?

I *also* see in the pictures how to drill this particular safe and line up the gates with a piece of wire. Little if any precision should be needed for the hole, and the problem is solved.

If that is talking out my "ASSA", then by all means tell everybody where I am wrong and demonstrate as much, rather than just insulting people. Believe me, I don't mind. Better the truth than bull, wherever it comes from. And that way, they would know it was me generating the smell, not you.