copy a key without a key

[SFGOON]

I'm impressed! How long have you been locksmithing for? Or maybe you're just one of those ultra-creative types. Either way stick with it.

[Exodus5000]

What a creative idea, you should build a prototype and tell us how it works.

[Exodus5000]

I've been thinking on this idea for a while, specifically how to decode a keyway without having to impression the lock.

What do you guys think creating a miniature calipers for this task. There will be a rule with a fixed steel strip coming off the end. The width of this strip will be known. A second, sliding strip (probably with short 90 degree bend at the end) with the width also known. Take measurements from calipers for each pin, note the type of lock your working with (for example a schlage) then go back to the shop, and use the measurements on a schlage key to create a working key.

Comments. I'm positive this must have been discussed before...

[vector40]

Furgit all of this... why not just make a comb-shaped tool that works in the same fashion (on pin tumblers) as tubular picks do (on tubular locks)? Same mechanism, isn't it?

[raimundo]

I have made such a thing with several differences, 1 you index the chassis for the slider on the part of the keyway that is the side of the blank that the cuts are on, my project used the part of the keyway that is where the uncut part of the key goes, (I am being careful here to word this without saying bottom of top, since the drawing is a euro cylinder, and the north americans view it the other way around.) Using the uncut side of the key as the place to index allows the decoder to enter the keyway much further, and get a better basis for holding the decoder straight. 2. on your decoder, the readout is done on a 'reader' key, whereas on my project, the readout was against a scale printed on the chassis of the decoder,
We both chose the half diamond type pick as the decoder tip, when I made one of these, I found that it had to be machined to a finer tolerance than I was equiped to produce, the looseness of the slider, and the looseness of the rivet that I used to attach the reader to the slider were issues. I used a piece of brass wrapped around the wide side of the chassis as a slider on which the rivet and reader were mounted. I found that fit and finish were the main problems, it is difficult even to get a perfect scale engraved into the chassis.
Therefore, if you are going to build one of these, I recommend that you look carefully at any junk machinery, such as typewriters, printers or such that have already machined parts that could be adapted to the design. Look for something that can be cut to produce the chassis, and that already has a tightly fitting slider on it, then work out how to mount the pivot point for your reader pic on this.

[raimundo]

after reading my last post an idea came to me, eliminate the piece of metal that slides and holds the pivot for the reader, this extra piece of metal causes inaccuracy by its looseness, cut a straight slot, into the chassis of the decoder, and put your rivet through this, mount the reader on this rivet that will slide inside the slot. I will look around for a piece of metal with an accuratly cut slot in it of about the 6 pin length, and enough metal forward and aft of the slot to cut into the indexer that goes into the keyway, and on which to cut the scale for readout, then I will find a machine screw that fits the slot tightly, and make a reader to pivot on it, the screw will have a wingnut to tighten it, as this may be helpful in accuratly reading it out, and as for the scale printed on the chassis for readout, it will be more accurate if it is put further from the pivot, giving the reading end more distance to swing

[kennylt]

here is some more "art" (i got myself a new scanner )
http://img120.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img120& ... ge35zf.jpg
is this what you mean? (that key in picture works by friction - the pins are tight fitting ... )
sorry for the mess, but i have to fit into 1megabite
i'm thinking of making that decoder thing (cardboard+paperclip+canned fish can+imagination ) but i dont know when ill be in the mood

[kennylt]

and i dont actualy have an acces even to a simple grinder so i dont think i can actualy make it more then a model (those impovised models sometimes work quite well )

[macaba]

I might be tempted to pratice my 3D CAD skills and design my own interpretation of this, it sounds cool!

[skold]

Yeah, here comes some long awaited use for, my tech drawing skills, auto desk inventor, ironCAD and qikdraw skills, but i will draw my idea and scan it in.

good idea.. goodwork

[silent]

inside of cd drives theyr are very nice sliders, smooth and well machined too. Some kind of steel so theyr sturdy.

[Exodus5000]

I was thinking more of building a miniture version of this:
http://www.nyblimp.com/superior/caliper/caliper102.jpg

Obviously the metal arms will be much smaller/thinner. And the one that slides on the ruler will have a 90 degree bend on it to sit on the pin.

[Boosted_Phoenix]

i think it would be easier to use a type of dial indicator then to use "small callipers" and alot easier to set up

[digital_blue]

That's not a bad idea Exodus. I have a very similar dial cailliper to the one you posted the pic of. I'm pondering something like a "snap on" attachment for it. I'll try and play with something and post if I get anywhere. For me, it would have to be something that could be added and removed at will, because those dial callipers are pretty pricey to start with.

db

[xodishox]

wow, nice thinking, check your grammer btw.

You should add something to it that will put enough tension to stop the pins at the sheer line. But other than that, great idea, hope it will work, post pics on progress.