Zeiss Ikon locks - some facts, some questions

[radio-link]

Hi!

I sometimes come about Zeiss Ikon locks, and I would like to tell what I found out about the common ones and would like to receive some further information what maybe someone else found out.

They have a very good reputation here in germany, they are expensive, and they are mainly used for masterkey systems; but in fact they have (at least in the older systems) lousy tolerances, and the pins are rounded a bit at the shear line to make the locks even work with worn out keys. The most common ones have five, six or seven pins, they had been on the market for decades, and the older systems even do not have paracentric keyways.

The non-paracentric 5-pin especially when masterkeyed can be raked in seconds, and depending on degree of masterkeying this also works with 6-pin and sometimes even 7-pin locks.

I got some of the older TK5 and TK6 masterkeyed cylinders (euro profile) together with change keys and master keys, I was able to measure a bit what depths are used, and there is one remarkable thing - in every cylinder there was one stack of pins with completely different depths, shiftet about 0.25mm from the other stacks. Another thing is, within one GMK system there seems to be always one stack with only one core pin (no masterkeyed stack!), identical throughout the whole systems, and always located at the tip of the key.

Another thing is, the master key usually is not the one with the smallest cuts (maybe because this would it make easy to produce one from a single cylinder); they seem to prefer always cuts in the middle range for the GMK, not the deepest ones, and not the smallest, they prefer not too much differs between the GMK cuts, and they seem to like simple patterns for a GMK like 2425232 or 444332. The most horrible GMK I have seen in such a system was a 6-pin with a cut like 555444 - in my opinion a security risk.

So far what I found out - I would love to see some additions :-)

Ralph.

[mbell]

I have a high opinion of Zeiss Ikon. Here's why:

http://lock-picking.org/lp101/ikon_key.jpg

http://lock-picking.org/lp101/ikon_lock.jpg
(Appologies for the poor quality photos)

This is the only lock of theirs I have. The Zeiss Ikon System M (Ikon Magnetic). Essentially the same magnetic system as the Evva MCS from what I can gather, but with a bit different secondary mechanical locking system. I'm really not sure if they're still in production or not. An amazing lock nontheless!

[radio-link]

Yes, the magnetic system is nice; but due to problems ZI was not able to solve the production was stopped; later EVVA bought the rights for the system, modified it a little bit and started marketing it. EVVAs kno-how seems to be good enough to continue production without any problems :)

ZI is known als reliable and durable, but this is just due to their high tolerances (for pin tumbler locks) and rounded pins; so after 20 years their pin tumbler locks still work smooth and without any problems, but also it is possible to rake them open within seconds.

[Fasthands]

I just so happen to be looking for info on these locks. I have recently found a Zeiss Ikon MASTER KEY for an abandoned building not far from my house. It appears to be for a seven pin lock, with side pins.all of the cuts are designed to accomidate low to mid-low setting pins.i could send you a picture if you like.

Peace.

[radio-link]

Yes, this meets my observations. A picture would be interesting! At the moment I just have access to three still used masterkeys, so I can not take a picture, for obvious reasons, but they all meet the observations from my first posting.

[oldlock]

The EVVA MCS system is about the only lock I can think of that there is no method of picking or decoding.

Paul

[radio-link]

Yes, MCS is a quite interesting system, I have such a cylinder together with the key, and it really seems very hard to defeat.

[Fasthands]

my camera's not working. i'll get you those pics as soon as it's fixed

[Fasthands]

my camera's not working. i'll get you those pics as soon as it's fixed

[quickpicks]

I have a ZI cylinder. Very beautiful and very hard to pick. Especially with the side pins.