locked room mystery

[kodierer]

At my school I had the VP, and a teacher come to me as they knew I picked locks(I do it when I am bored in class), and they told me that they had caught a kid stealing a hub from a room with a door that automatically locks its' self. They said they found the hub in his locker, and wanted to know if it were possible that they picked the lock, and also the bathrooms keep getting locked, or if there was something else that was easier to use that they might look for. So I told them lockpicking was unlikely, but that they probably used a snap gun, and I gave them my easy pickings book.
I personally would bet that they somehow got a key though. How could I identify the various scratches in the cylinder, and what could I use to inspect the cylinder. For the scratches, or other evidence I mean

[kodierer]

blar come, came, vice I keep screwing up my grammar today

[digital_blue]

Hi kodierer.

Your post prompted me to have a quick read through the section on forensic evidence of surreptitious entry in LSS. To summarize, though there is forensic evidence that can be obtained by removing the plug and examining both the pins, and the interior of the keyway, it is unlikely that you would have the equipment nor the knowledge to properly distinguish tool marks form normal wear marks caused by a key.

I also agree with you that is would be highly unlikely that picking was used for entry anyway. I would be far more inclined to think that a member of the faculty, or perhaps a student who had authorization to enter had inadvertently left the door open or unlocked. The simple answers tend to be the correct ones.

I would suggest that this is a "one-off" incident that was a matter of right place at the right time for the culprit or, perhaps, some less sophisticated form of bypass was employed.

db

[digital_blue]

Upon review I noticed that I had missed the part where you said that the door automatically locks itself. Taking this into consideration, I would lean more to some other form of bypass.

db

[bembel]

What exactly is "a door that automatically locks its' self"?
If you're talking about these automatic door closers - they can be blocked easily and the next person leaving the room will leave an unclosed door.

In a company I worked for they broke in this way and stole a lot of computer equipment (which unfortunately made it to my concern). Police didn't treat this as a burglarly and insurance refunded nothing because technically nobody broke in.

P.S. Why don't they just ask the stupid kid?

[master in training]

well i may be wrong, so anyone who feels it necessary can correct me, but if i were trying to work out such a thing, i would either ask the kid in question, or, if the culprit were not around, i would look at the door as if asked to get into it myself, can the door be "carded"? is there a simple way of bypassing the lock? are there any signs of a forced entry, such as wood cracked around any of the lock, or specific dents/chips/scrathces or anything else in the lock which suggests it was forced, usually screwdrivers are the tool of choice, so indentations at the front of the are the key is inserted, exactly oppoiste each other?

i once heard of a type of lock that could be forced in a certain way meaning that keys all worked normally and it seems that the lock was fine, but anything could be used to open it since there was damage to the lock internally. could this be a possibility?

this is just my way of looking at it, someone else may offer something much better. i hope this helps a little bit at least.

~ Master in Training ~

[digital_blue]

I am sure this is not the case in this instance, but I would think that you could remove all the top pins and springs and reassemble the lock. I've never tried, but shy of a bit less resistence when pushing the key in (probably not noticable to most) you would have a key that seems to work fine but will spin at will with a small flat screw driver. Even better, this lock would work with the correct key, but almost certainly not with any other key.

Just some thoughts.

db

[silent]

You said you pick in class when your board! How do you get away with that?

[rayman452]

I pick in class when Im bored. My geography teacher is scared of me, sais if anything is stolen from her from her house or hwat not in the next ten years, shes blaming me. Its easy to pick in class, the first few times its a little hard, since all those other kids think they can do it bug you, but then its smooth sailing from there on. If your VP really wants to know, ask if you can get written permission from them to attempt to "break" into that hub room, and then you can show them how you did it. They will be able to take precautions then.

[Chucklz]

Once "they" know.... your always the number one suspect.

[Dent]

Agreed.... the kid that shows the most computer skill is always the one wrongfully accused when something goes wrong, even though all that happened was someone downloaded a virus or script and clicked on it.


Personally I was kicked off 3 years from computers in highschool, even though I could prove my innocence(alibi, logs, also showing who d/l and ran the thing).

No logic or common sense sways high school administrations... you are better off hiding any picking skill from them

[master in training]

i know what you mean about computer administrators in schools, its not so bad in my school, theres only two technicians, both seem fairly useless when it comes to pcs, but my ICT teacher knows a lot and doesnt blame people unfairly, he knows all about the log files and actually gets the right person

now, i may be being quite stupid here, or it may be because i live in the UK, but a few questions for you,
1. what is a VP
2. what is a hub
3. how on earth are you allowed to pick in class??!!?! we have to do work evey minute we are in class and at least 4hrs per week, per subject outside of it, i barely manage to do anything else as it is, let alone picking in class!

Thank you, sorry if im being thick with the first two questions, but i think the third is a perfectly valid one


~ Master in Training ~

[master in training]

oh, i forgot to put in the last post, i dont hide my skills in anything from anybody, i just choose not to tell them, if they get to know me and find out, i dont mind, but i dont go shouting it from the rooftops.

~ Master in Training ~

[MrB]

Let me guess:

VP; vice-principal, equivalent to deputy head.

hub; I would guess a network hub for computers.

Picking in class; well I don't know, but schools seem to be different in North America (evidently in Canada as well as the USA). Paying attention in class doesn't seem to be expected to the same degree as is traditional in Britain.

[master in training]

aaaah, ok then, thank you, i had a sort of feeling VP might be vice principal, they obviously do a lot more than deputy heads do in the UK (or more that ours at least), as for picking in class, i think if we were caught even carrying picks in school, not using them at all, we would probably get suspended, if not expelled permanently, although my form teacher doesnt mind since i opened her cash box for her once

~ Master in Training ~