Where could you compare the tension with?

[Ives]

As I am new to picking, I was wondering: Where can you compare the needed tension with? The same tension you need to turn a key or the same tension you need to bend a feather.

Like always: I appologise for the way I type, because I'm dutch, and I'm only 14 years old.

[iworathong]

it would probably be closer to bending a feather. it may require a bit more tension then that but each lock varys. padlocks seem to require a bit more tension but this is just in my experiences

[Kayvon]

Here's the rule of thumb I always start with: if your tension wrench were parallel to the ground and you (somehow) put a quarter on the very end of it, how much pressure would the weight from the quarter put on the wrench? That's generally a good starting spot. Of course, it will vary from lock to lock, but the most common mistake for new pickers is to put waaaay too much pressure on the tension wrench (yes, I did it too).
Once you've got that starting pressure, try picking the lock or raking the pins, If they're not sticking it means there's not enough pressure to catch the pins at the shear line. If you're not sure (and you may not be the first time), try releasing all the pressure on the tension wrench. If you hear pins fall back in place, you had at least enough pressure. I say "at least" because if youo're putting too much pressure the key pins (those are the pins on the bottom in the plug--the driver pins are on top in the hull) can get wedged and stuck at the shear line and you will still hear them fall back down when you release the pressure. As a general rule of thumb, you want to apply as little pressure as you have to when picking the lock.

Where can you compare the needed tension with? The same tension you need to turn a key or the same tension you need to bend a feather.

The reason the pressure is far less than a key is this: you're only picking the lock, which the key does automaticallly (well, ok, it doesn't pick it at all, but you get the idea). Once you've picked the lock (or once you've inserted the key), you'll have to apply more pressure to turn and lock/unlock it--as much pressure as the key requires. This is only after you've picked it, though.

[dry132]

In the book that came free with my SouthOrd MPXS20 set, it said to imagine taking a rubber band and a thumbtack. Put the thumbtack in the door at a distance which the rubber band won't have to stretch at all to reach, but perpendicular to the tip of the torque wrench. Now take the rubber band and twist it up around itself a few times to put just a little pressure and that is about how much you should start with. That helped me realize I was putting too much on it, and backing off really makes it easier.

A quarter on the end of the tension wrench is a pretty good analogy, too, and perhaps more universal.

I also had some success making a torque wrench out of a piece of an aluminum pop can. It won't let you put too much force on there without bending. If you're bending the aluminum pop-can wrench, then its time to ease up on the tension.

Each lock is different, and as mentioned padlocks sometimes have springs which make them take lots more tension.

Hope that helps.

[digital_blue]

I think I am pretty much onside with Kayvon. We often wonder if we are applying too much pressure. Look at it another way. Start by assuming you need no pressure at all. Obviously, this is not the case. But work up from there. Try applying the least amount of pressure you can manage, and see if you get a pin to set. If you are not sure, as was mentioned, release the pressure and listen for the top pin dropping back onto the bottom pin.

I find you'll have a better chance of finding the right amount of tension if you start at the bottom and work up until you find what works.

db

[NKT]

Hmmm... I've found that it totally depends on the lock. I have three cheap practise cylinders, all identical, from the same manf., and one needs masses of torque, but the other two bind with even half that.

Generally, the cheaper the lock the more you have to torque it, in my experiance.

[digital_blue]

I don't understand why any lock would need "massive" torsion. All you want to do is cause enough friction to adequately bind one pin. Unless you had some seriously strong pins (way stronger than you'd find in a lock) there should be no need for really strong torsion. Having said that, I think that there are certainly some locks that will tolerate strong torsion better than others, but I suspect these locks could just as easily be opened with lighter torsion. With an old lock the plug might be really tough to turn and, in this case, once the lock is picked it may require signifcantly greater tension to force the plug to turn. That's a different storey though.

Maybe I'm missing something. If so, somebody fill me in. As it stands, I can't see really hard torsion ever being needed.

db

[Dr Money]

to new guys i always say that the tension used should not exceed the force used to push a button down on a mouse, it seems to work for me

[vector40]

I've often found that good but worn locks (front door Schlages, say) pick well with a good bit of pressure, db, and can be tough with less, I think because the pins are too worn to stay set with a feather touch.

[Sportbike5000]

Hey, this is my first post, but Ill give her a shot anyway. I just started picking locks earlyer this week. I dont have any good picks, although Im going to makes some thanks to a certian vid from this site .

My tension bar is a paperclip (along with all of my other high quality paper clip picks), and I put just enough pressue on it to bend the paperclip slightly. Hows that for an analogy?

[digital_blue]

Sport: This may sound silly after what I said above, but I don't think a paper clip is ideal for tension. It bends far to easy and lacks the springiness, or memory, that you would want in a tension wrench. Try a bent hirpin, or the metal clip from some pen caps. That will likely work better.

db

[NKT]

digital_blue,
I mean masses of torque compared to a nice lock that will set nicely and easily.

I've got one padlock that is nasty to pick, but I know it well now, and can open it in a few seconds. It is very sloppy, and the plug is obviously connected directly to the shackle. The pins will not set unless you put silly torque on it, because the plug is so far out of alignment, and is being pushed on from the other end by the spring. I played with it today, and opened it with a new pick I made, but it was bending trying to turn the plug. I was sure it had set all the pins, and, sure enough, I dropped a wrench in, and twisted hard, and it turned and popped. If I had dropped the tension at all, it would have unset the pins.

[JoR]

I have a "Draper Value" padlock. Although it sounds like an easy to pick cheapo thing it is actually more difficult than my Tri Circle 266 and Masterlock No.3. Although the ball rake has it in seconds..

Anyway, it takes quite a lot of tension/pressure - about twice that on a normal padlock.

[Kayvon]

I picked up a Master Lock (Magnum) at the hardware store over the weekend... it seems to have a spring-loaded plug. In other words, if you stick the key in and turn it clockwise (this opens the lock), as soon as you let go the key snaps back to the rotation before you had twisted it at all.
Because of the, the tension is a little tricky. You need to apply enough tension to overcome the spring, but not so much as to bind the pins. Then again, I guess that's the trick with any lock.

This thread is a good question for anyone starting because, in my opinion, anyone can rake a lock but finding the ideal tension is very tricky.

[vector40]

Aye, most padlocks have spring-loaded cylinders, which is one of the reasons that I always have serious trouble with them.