New At Picking(just started tonight!!!)

[Dent]

I was using the tension at the top... I've sinced moved to the slim tension and put it in the bottom.


Anyway, I am having some troubles with actual picking technique.


I seem to pick front to back(feeling for set/unset/binding pins along the way) by moving in a "Z type fashion".

I'll be using a hook, let the point scrape down the first pin until I can get under it, then if I push a little up, I can use the feeler to spot the bottom of the next pin, then I push that a little up, and push forward so that I can scrape the side of the next pin with my feeler.

I find I have a lot less control working back to front because the sensetivity on the inside of the hook pick won't give as much info about specific pins.


Is this a problem I should change?


I know how lock picking works, but I have a little trouble understanding the actual pick motions that one uses to get around inside a lock.

[digital_blue]

Dent: Of course, every lock is different. However, every time I pick up a new lock I go through the same basic set of motions to start with. I always start with a small hook (feeler).

1. With no tension, I briefly rake from back to front, counting the pin stacks as they drop so I know for sure how many pin stacks I'm up against.
2. Applying very light tension, I work from front pin to back. If the keyway permits it, I tend to insert the pick into the lock with the handle tilted up a bit (thus lowering the tip of the hook). Once it is under the first pin, I tilt the handle downward, pivoting the tip of the hook upward pushing the pin up. This action mirrors how you might use a crow bar.
3. As I lift the first pin I am feeling for any friction that would indicate that the pin is binding.
4. If I feel little or no friction, I move on to the next pin by tilting the handle up again, sliding the pick in farther, and repeating the process on the 2nd pin.
The whole motion is a sort of rocking of the pick handle up and down. It is a very gentle motion, typically using the bottom of the hook as a pivot point.

I hope this helps. Your milage may vary. I've never really spent so much time studying the motions I was making, so thanks. I learned a couple things about my picking in the process!

db

[Dent]

Thanks!

Well I think I'm done with my cheapie Kwikset 5 pin, I have randomized the driver and key pins to provide more of a challege, but it still takes about 30 seconds to pick pin by pin.

I think false set high's are the only thing I am having trouble with, the rest (setting, false set high, binding, ect) are all coming pretty easily with this.


Do you guys recommend going to try and find spool / mushroom pins for this kwikset, or should I buy a better lock? Any suggestions from a 5 pin kwikset?

I'm leaning more towards deadbolts because I like being able to change around pins, so I'm trying to steer clear of padlocks...


-Dent

PS Hey Digital, I heard you were a magician? Just so you know I am a part-time pro myself... you goto any conventions /events in the states at all?

[zekeo]

My newbie technique is basically like digital blues in terms of rocking the pick. What I try to do is go back and forth very slowly increasing the height that I push the pins up. This helps me avoid false-set pins. It also helps me form a clearer picture of the inside of the lock.

[digital_blue]

Dent:

Regarding the choice between new lock or security pins, the answer is yes. As for me and conventions, sadly no. There have been a number of conventions I would have loved to attend, but between work, wife, and house it never makes it to the top of the list. I tossed around the idea of the Wizards Weekend in Minneapolis a couple years back, but in the end couldn't make it work.

db

[Dent]

Hm well I am trying to limit my money spent on this hobby...I guess I have way to many hobbies(magic is expensive for the good stuff).


What is the difference between a 5-pin Schlage and a 5-pin Kwikset, if neither have security pins?

What parts of the lock will feel different?

Is it worth spending another 20-30 bucks for a schlage or yale, or should I just find a locksmith to purcahse some security pins for my kwikset?



Also, if better locks are just generally(binding, springs) better, what lock should I buy that I can swap the most pins in and out of to get the most use of it down the road?

I'd rather not buy another lock 24 hours after I get a schlage if it turns out easy to buy.


Is there a good specific deadbolt lock that you can buy that you can start out easy, but will be very hard once security pins are pop'd in?

[vector40]

Dent, the biggest difference between similar locks of disparate quality, at least from a picking perspective, is in the tolerances. A better lock is built to much tighter tolerances -- everything just fits together better. Since lockpicking basically works by taking advantage of minute flaws in the lock, it's a straight relationship between tolerances and ease of picking.

[Dent]

Any specific lock with high standards(tolerence wise) that will work as a good beginner 5-pin standard lock but be abled to be repinned to 6-pin serrated/spool/mushroom lock?


I'd rather not have to buy any more locks for awhile if possible

[stick]

Schlage is a good lock to practice on. Most Schlage locks I've seen come pinned as 5, drilled for 6. The tolerances are good to teach you to feel the lock, and once you add some security pins, can pose quite a challenge.

Of course, you could just buy a Medeco and have fun with that for a few months.

[vector40]

Yes, agreed about the Schlages. Most new Schlage deadbolts, I believe, have chambers for six pins, and NEW ones are usually much too tight to allow for haphazard "luck" openings -- you gotta know what you're doing.

You'll have to find a source for security pins, of course.

[JoR]

Really must get some new padlocks, only "good quality" ones I can find are Abus, and some of those are quite tricky. I'm thinking 65/50 here and the larger version.

[Dent]

Well I decided to order Varjeal's U-key kit.


Since I was going to try to buy a schlage anyway and try to get regular/security pins for it, i thought it was a good deal and saved a bunch of running around looking for the specifc things that I didn't even know i needed.


Hopefully will be able to practice on this until I move up to Primus locks....