Pin 2/3 refuse to pick?

[99atlantic]

I'm working on a kwikset titan deadbolt. It came with 2 locks in the package, both use the same key (i.e., pins are identical in each).

Anyways, one of the locks I can pick with 6 pins in it perfectly.

The other however, I can't (keeping in mind it's the same exact thing) - long story short, I've found that if I remove pin 2 I can pick it perfectly; if I remove pin 3 I can pick it perfectly; however, if I leave both pin 2 and 3 in it (regardless of the rest of the pins) i just can't pick it - i've spent over three hours on it, not picked it once. It just doesn't make any sense - all the pins set, but the plug just doesn't turn. The key works perfectly, so I know the correct pins are in there.

Hmmmm, I'm compeltely stumped.

[daedalus]

Can you feel them binding at a time? Maybe the two pins are binding simultaneously. Try applying less tension, pick the first, apply a little more tension so the set pin won't fall and pick the second. If that doesn't help, you're may be messing with the first pin(2 or 3) that you've set, while working on the next.

hope it helps

[stick]

Try some heavier tension when you try to set those two pins. It may just be that they're binding at the same time.

[Varjeal]

Long story short, your locks are NOT exactly the same. If they were, you could pick both with equal ease.

Truth is, even if one lock was made precisely after the other and assembled, the tolerances will have changed slightly. Plug to shell fit, pin diameter, chamber size and alignment, all those factors and more are what make lock picking possible in the first place.

Once you understand that without terrible expense NO two locks, keyed the same or not are exactly the same. The order required to successfully pick the two locks you have may not be the same (and in your case most likely isn't).

Your incorrectly identifying pins as being set properly when they are not. This is not a criticism, it's a comment based on fact. If the pins were set properly, the plug would turn.

Go back into the lock, and when you think everything is set correctly but the plug isn't turning, use a hook pick to test each pin in turn. Try to feel for opposition tension being applied when you lift each pin. If you feel a slight movement in your tension wrench in the direction you are picking, then and only then are you actually setting a pin stack in the way it needs to be. If you feel oppositional force on your tension wrench, then you have underset the pin stack. If the bottom pins are staying "up", then you are oversetting them and must either reset completely or relax tension slightly to allow the bottom pin to fall.

[raimundo]

the pins while equal in length, may be different in diameter on a very small scale you cannot see by eye, and the chamfering of the edges of the pins could be quite different.

[digital_blue]

Did anyone notice the date of the original question? This has got to set a record around here for longest time to get a simple answer. But boy-oh-boy when one answer comes...

db

[stick]

Wow, I never noticed that... Daedalus, what are you doing looking at month old posts?

[digital_blue]

It's the n00bs that always find the old posts. Just goes to show you some n00bs do read! Way to go daedalus! You found one that slipped by us! (Maybe somebody should let 99 know that somebody finally got around to answering him! )

db

[daedalus]

Actually.. there's a link in the forum for "unanswered questions" In fact, i didn't notice the date of the message... I assumed any of you "post sharks" would've already answered it if it was old

By the way.. don't call people n00bs out of the air. I've read this forum for a long time(just didn't feel like registering and posting before)

[raimundo]

watch out for that sun, don't fly to close, or was that your dad icarus?

[omelet]

Icarus was the son of Daedalus, and yes, he flew too close to the sun and his makeshift wings held together with wax melted.

What a dumbass.

[daedalus]

Daedalus was also the master artificer which, ordered by king Minos, built the labyrinth to trap the minotaur(Minos wife's son). Daedalus later lost the favor of the king and had to leave the island. Since Minos controlled the sea routes, Daedalus built wings with wax and feathers for him and his son to escape.
Daedalus warned Icarus not to fly too high or too low, as the sun would melt the wax and sea foam would moist the feathers. Icarus, though, tried to reach the heavens and thus flew too high and fell. Daedalus arrived safely to Sicily.

But this is geting way off topic

[vector40]

Kind of a parable of setting a pin tumbler. Fly too high, you'll false set; fly too low, you won't bind...

Too much cough syrup for me...

[digital_blue]

daedalus, I used the term n00b in the most affectionate way possible. Sorry if it was offensive to you, it most certainly wasn't meant to be. In fact, I was trying to give you props!

db

[daedalus]

No offense taken.
I understand you were being kind, but the term noob has always that "black cloud hovering" kind of feeling(it shouldn't, but the fact is it does)

Cheers