Fast way to open a lock?

[Kingdom]

I'm a high school student and i'm taking weight training, ive heard of this way that you can close and lock, and then leave it there, come back and then some how you leave the lock on the last number in the combonation and close it then when you come back to it you turn the dial exactly once and to the same number and it opens

or something similar? Is there a way to do this?

[Kayvon]

With older (much older) locks, you used to be able to do that. When you opened the locker, the dial would rotate about five numbers in one direction (clockwise, I think) so that it was no longer set to the last number of your combination. On these older locks, all you had to do was twist it (counter-clockwise) back to the last number of your combination.

Because of the way the newer locks work, I don't believe they do this anymore at all. Check out www.howstuffworks.com for a visual on combination locks.

[Uisgdlyast]

weight training.... i wish we had that in highschool. Had to do it alone

[TOWCH]

Most combination locks will disturb the wheel pack when you open them, it might be possible to fix this disturbance by rotating each wheel back a certain number towards the fence after being picked up but it's giving me a headache trying to visualize the process. The problems that come to mind right now is that the amount the wheel pack is disturbed, I believe is relative to how violently you open the lock. Then there's the fact that alot of people will spin the dial once they close the lock to prevent you from getting the last number. I'm not sure if that answers your question because I'm not sure what your question was.

[digital_blue]

In the case of a Master combo lock, the disturbance of the wheel pack happens as you close the lock, not open it. I have found, however, that the disturbance isn't very effective, and in most cases even with the newer masters just rotating the dial backward to last number of the combo will allow it to open up 70-ish% of the time.

db

[kehveli]

In reference to TOWCH's post about some locks scrambling the wheel pack after opening the lock, I wonder if this means that the lock must have an insecure spring-loaded hasp-locking-latch (the part you slide off when shimming). Because if the wheels are scrambled and in incorrect positions, the locking dog must be engaged. Or would you need to dial the combination again to close it? That does not sound reasonable.

Maybe they use some kind of very clever mechanism that allows the lock to be closed after the wheel pack is scrambled but not opened again without re-dialing the combo.

To me scrambling the wheels after closing the lock seems a more reasonable option.

And about TOWCH saying that it's giving it headache for him to try to visualize the process, couldn't you just backdial the lock to get the current entered combination, write it down and then try, say +- 5 numbers for each retrieved number. It wouldn't take too long to dial these 10 combinations, but considering master locks, shimming is easier.

[digital_blue]

Maybe they use some kind of very clever mechanism that allows the lock to be closed after the wheel pack is scrambled but not opened again without re-dialing the combo.

Such a clever mechanism has been invented. We call it a spring. The locking dog is spring loaded and beveled so that on downward force it will allow the shackle to pass by, but on an upward pull it will hook the dog and not allow it to pass. It is this very spring loaded mechanism that makes shimming possible.

db

[raimundo]

can you just back up the dial and try a number, then repeat, I think this would only work if the only tumbler scrambled was the one fixed to the axle and the dial, if the other tumblers are scrambled, you're three spins of the dial from opening it. my shim takes these things down in about 10 to 15 seconds. its not the type of shim sold by commercial pick companies, its a straight in thrust type, no gripping the butterfly wings and dancing around the shackle. I make'em out of the flat stainless steel spring inside a vhs tape case, the one stuck to the plastic cover. Some noobs on this site say they have tried to make them and it didn't work, I thought that was just noob stuff, but lately I have found that this spring inside the vhs case is in some cases wider and thicker than the ones I use, so I guess you just gotta have the cheap tape case. the metal is curved by hammering a screwdriver shaft onto it over a soft pine board, then it is cut with a tin snips to the shape of a jacknife blade, curved out on one edge, and straight to the tip on the other edge. Be sure to make them for the mastercombolock, the shim is handed, don't get it backwards. it is put inside the left leg of the shackle facing the dial and thrust down, then the shim is held down while the shackle is pulled up, then repeat, on the second or third try it opens. The edges that are shaped with the tin snips need to be dressed for deburring with a file, to reduce frictiondrag.

[kehveli]

Such a clever mechanism has been invented. We call it a spring. The locking dog is spring loaded and beveled so that on downward force it will allow the shackle to pass by, but on an upward pull it will hook the dog and not allow it to pass. It is this very spring loaded mechanism that makes shimming possible.

I don't see the point of your post. Did you read my entire message before replying? There I mentioned just that very fact (about the spring-loaded latch and even mentioned about the shimming). I thought this was clear:

I wonder if this means that the lock must have an insecure spring-loaded hasp-locking-latch (the part you slide off when shimming).

Maybe the point about the mechanism wasn't clear enough, but I thought that the fact that I did mention that spring mechanism was enough clue that I was looking for a secure solution.

that allows the lock to be closed after the wheel pack is scrambled but not opened again without re-dialing the combo.

This was probably the hard-to-understand part but with this I mean a mechanism that would allow the hasp be closed without redialing and then the latch would be deadlocked.

[mikash52]

i remeber that in my highschool they ended up puting built in locks on all the lockers. we figured out that they were cheap and if you left them on the last number the lock would be left open for as long as the number didnt shift, iun most cases a couple weeks. vbut eventualy it would shift enough from closing it and remebering your combo became the new problem.

[digital_blue]

Such a clever mechanism has been invented. We call it a spring. The locking dog is spring loaded and beveled so that on downward force it will allow the shackle to pass by, but on an upward pull it will hook the dog and not allow it to pass. It is this very spring loaded mechanism that makes shimming possible.

I don't see the point of your post. Did you read my entire message before replying? There I mentioned just that very fact (about the spring-loaded latch and even mentioned about the shimming). I thought this was clear:

I wonder if this means that the lock must have an insecure spring-loaded hasp-locking-latch (the part you slide off when shimming).

Maybe the point about the mechanism wasn't clear enough, but I thought that the fact that I did mention that spring mechanism was enough clue that I was looking for a secure solution.

that allows the lock to be closed after the wheel pack is scrambled but not opened again without re-dialing the combo.

This was probably the hard-to-understand part but with this I mean a mechanism that would allow the hasp be closed without redialing and then the latch would be deadlocked.

My point here was that the position of the wheel pack has no bearing on whether you can close the lock, so whether the wheel pack gets disturbed on opening or on closing is of no consequence. To be clear, the gates on the wheel pack need to be aligned in order to allow the release of the locking dog for opening, but not for closing the locks. That is what the spring-loaded mechanism does. I hope that clears things up.

db

[Kingdom]

so.....it's not possible with newer locks or is possible?

[hzatorsk]

kingdom,

newer locks = not possible. Opening and closing the lock jumbles the internal wheels just enough it won't open again without redialing. ...at least for a properly operating lock.

The way some people achieve this effect is they simply redial the combination after locking their locker. But not pull the lock open. This was a popular way to 'look cool' (at least back when I was in school). As they could run to their lockers and jerk the lock open instantly.

Problem then was... that some boys would run down the halls pulling all the locks (during the classes they'd skip) and found locks that would pop open because their owners left them in this ready-to-pull state.

Then they'd turn the lock hasp around through the handle of the locker and lock it so the face of the lock was facing into the locker making it hard to open again. (Or perhaps pilfer the locker / steal the lock / or your stuff!!) Newer lockers have handles that don't allow the locks to be locked backwards behind the handle.


z

[Guesss]

in reply to the built in locks to the lockers... it was this way at my school but what a lot of people did (granted it provides no security but) they jammed the lockers with a pen cap. they just put it under the raising and lowering mechanism and it never completely closed. to the average person if you use a small enough cap or something it still looked like it was closed but i could most always tell which ones were cause i have always had a fasination with lock even though i just started picking a few months ago.

I know this doesn't hlep with the padlock combo locks but it is one way around the built in locks to lockers. The key to this is though is to make sure that you use the smallest possible thing that will still keep the locking mechanism up but not have much visible evidance on the outside.

[mikash52]

i forgot to mention that some people did do that very thing only with paper. but i went for weeks, as did many others, just leaving it on the last number. that was about three years ago so i know things probably have changed, except at that school, but i think saying that with all new locks this is not possible is alittle too generalized for me.