Making an unpickable Lock

[Romstar]

Here, try this. It's the basics of what I was talking about.

http://logistics.about.com/gi/dynamic/o ... portation/

It's not complete by any means, but it shows you what I meant.

Romstar

[andyaudio]

I have a nice deisign that could possibly work (might be expensive though). Immagine a circular tube like key that has little grooves all the way round it at random places (king of like thos old musical box things), and a lock that has loads of tiny indents in it (inline with the grooves so it turns). Now this key would be loong (so no grinding would unlock it). You put the key in right to the back then turn it right so it wont go any further. clunk. then pull it right back. clunk. then turn it left all the way clunk again. then forward and right etc. The grooves would have to be aligned all the way or it wont turn. And maybe some instructions on the key of which way to turn it say F,L,B,F,R?
Good idea?

[digital_blue]

In 1989, Pinnow received a patent (4868559) for a security system which employed an optical key-shaped reader to phoelectically derive an electical signal from a shape characteristic of a key. The system provided hightened security over standard key-operated devices and was designed for use in automobiles. vol.1 p.370

This would sound to me to be unpickable in the traditional sense. Also, provided the source key was protected, I would think that other means of bypass would be avoided as well (ie: impressioning, decoding, etc.)

db

[raimundo]

this thread says it has had 13000+ hits, is any other thread as well travelled? who are those 13000 peope?

[digital_blue]

But it also has 138 replies... well, 139 now. As a ratio, it's not so far off other threads. People just keep coming back to check on it. Every time somebody posts something, most of us come in here to read it. I'm probably responsible for over 100 of those hits personally.

db

[BLY]

Although this wouldn't be unpickable, it would take a bit more time:

Lets use the pin tumbler for example... The cylinder could have multiple sets of pins/springs (in the same positions of course), where, when the cylinder is turned the pins would drop back down into the key-way, locking it up again. You would have to pick it again for it to continue to rotate.
It would be similar to a tubular lock.

[raimundo]

bly, when the key opens it and it turns, and relocks what do you do then?

[zekeo]

I had an idea for a relatively simple and difficult lock to pick:

A normal pin tumbler design, but with one catch: The springs are much more powerful, and the pins are held up out of the keyway with a spring loaded barrier. One would have to insert the key, press a lever/button which would remove the barrier for say 1/2 second in which to turn the key. If the key is not correct, the lock will have to be re-set (haven't quite figured this part out yet).

Any thoughts? I guess my idea is just the general concept of only making the pins available for a very short time...

[kehveli]

That sounds like a good idea, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to implement this mechanically in practice. And if this wasn't meant to be implemented in mechanically, it would need a battery, and if we had a battery why wouldn't we just use a electric lock?

How could the timing be made so that when you press the button, the pins will be available for 1/2 seconds and then somehow pull them back (even while the user is holding the button)? And the pulling-back-force would need to overcome the pressure coming from the pin springs.

End even just pulling them back would be difficult because of the tension the picker may apply.

This sounds too complicated for normal usage. And if you ask me, this is not a 'relatively simple lock'. Though I'm still interested if you can for example draw a picture of the mechanism.

[NKT]

andyaudio,

not at all sure how that would work. Would it be a single pin in the lock that you were steering? If so, how would you stop it from simply being chased along the track with a pick?

zekeo,

Great idea, I can't see how you could have a key in place yet still have the barrier?

What I could see is a token type lock, with a machined token as the key. This is inserted into the lock tray, then returned to the original position, and this key then passes or fails the check. You can't pick it, since you are unable to reach the pins due to the sliding tray.

If you aren't sure what I mean, think of a pool table money slot, but with a uniquely designed "coin" that you put in the tray, then slide closed to release the balls/open the door. Instead of dropping the coin in a tray, it is still there when you open the door, and you take that as the key.

[BiAxLsideBAR]

just add LAB serrated top pins with mushroom spool variations to an everest. If shearline is comprimised and you can pick manually, then master a biaxl sidebar and combine the hidhest tolerances. manufacture hardware with high quality alloys and secure drill gaps- presto

[kracker]

This is the closest I've come to a pickproof lock. Admittedly it was designed for a safe. We have had quite a few 'very experienced' safe lock pickers try to open the prototype without even coming close. All these attempts were carried out with a clear perspex cover on the lock allowing full view of the internal workings!
[/url]http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2349910&F=0

[wtf|pickproof?]

How about a pintumbler lock where you have to fully insert the key. Any movement of the cylinder has to be be prevented by a cover which has to be shut, thereby completely covering the keyway. The cover could work similar to disks in a disktumbler to lock the cylinder. After the cover is closed the cylinder can be turned by a mechanism(didn't think about it for now) if the right key was inserted beforehands. This way any manipulations of the pins would be prevented.

I don't know if anyone has suggested this before, as I din't read through this thread. If anyone did I'm sorry I've wasted your valuable time.

wtf|pickproof?[/code]

[spider]

I have had ideas myself for a certain type of lock. I would not tell anyone what i want to do. I used to work for one of the largest patent and renewals company in the world. If you have an idea, you don't let anyone know any details, no matter how small it is

[Varjeal]

I think pickproof is onto something....and it really wouldn't be that complex of a system.

Having to fully insert a "key", close a cover over the front, then turn something like a seperate thumbturn to rotate the latch (the lock cylinder would free the latching mechanism) would effectively make a lock pickproof NDE.

The thumbturn can easily be designed into a clutch type mechanism so forcing it simply causes it to slip and not open the latch. (there are already many types of locks with this feature.)

The cover or "window" can be designed so that when in the "closed" position retracts a small hardened pin blocking the rotation of the plug as well. There would quite literally be no need for special pins or keys other than some anti-drill/bypass plates in strategic locations.

Cool idea.