The lock cracker

[NKT]

Anyone seen one of these before?
http://www.locksmith-tools.co.uk/html/t ... acker.html

Apparently it uses a well-known flaw in the Euro cylinder design so you can snap the thing in half!

More importantly, are there any protections against this? I've got Euro locks, and a major flaw like this needs fixed, and a lot of people have this type of lock round here.

Simply keeping the lock barrel from sticking out (it says less than 3mm) is one way, but on many doors the Euros are always sticking out.

[quicklocks]

thats a very good tool and very effective.
you can get the right size cylinder from a good wholesaler. they start at 30/30 then incresase in 5 mm so theres is the right one out there for you.

[raimundo]

If you want to fix that flaw, you could just make an armored beveled escuteon plate to fit on the front of the cylinder, to keep that thing off of them. You would have to sell them in various lengths depending on how far out the locks protrude. and find the right way to mount them on the face of the lock, or makey it a really large plate that covers the whole mortise lock.

[NKT]

Just spent an hour chatting to the local lockie in his shop, and he knew exactly what I was on about when I mentioned this trick. Asked about his NDE skills, and he says he is quite good, but not as good as the other chap, who is really skilled! But when the other chap thinks it is too much, there's this other guy... All one big happy family!

I also now know a sixth NDE method for getting into those little electronic safes!

Anyway, he reckons that keeping the lock as flush as possible is the best thing. If they can't grab it, they can't break it.

Also, he has a range of Mul-T-Lock restricted keyway high security Euro style locks. They use the pins coming in from the side, rather than above, unlike a Yale, and they look the part. They are code cut jobs.

Anyone know if they are worth the money? I already have high security Euro locks, but the bump keys thing, the fact I'm getting good enough to pick it anyway, the use of pick guns, etc. means I want to upgrade again!

What is the best brand of Euro style lock? Snap off, picking, pulling, drill, etc. resistance wise. Don't worry about the rest of the security, it is covered.

[Wolf2486]

I have dealt with Mul-T-Lock padlocks, some I've opened, some I haven't. The ones I have opened where opened with specialized picks for Mul-T-Lock. Depending on the type of Mul-T-Lock you get, you can find some with drill resistant pins inside of them. I don't know much about Euro cylinders, but a flaw like that seems to be a major security risk.

[Peaky]

As far as i know you can snap all euros if not pull them, this isnt classed as NDE as the lock is unuseable afterwards, burlgars dont walk round with snappers or picks though so i wouldnt worry too much.

[pinky]

burglars do however walk round with hammers wrenches and cold chisels, one good wack and cylinder is snapped, ive attended 4 burglaries this month where properties were entered in this way, thieves learn from internet and mates and tv too. soory peaky , they may not carry snappers , but they carry effective alternatives and know how to use em.

as to multi lock, they are releasing a new anti snap lock with a transponder fitted to key , mechanism and lock, cant open without correct chip, not seen one yet , and doubt it will be cheap, but then burglay bill just smashes window or door, get a vicious wife, great for security.

[NKT]

Thanks, Pinky.

This is the sort of thing I feel safer knowing! I've dealt with the main other issues already, but if a single hit from a cold chisel gets someone in, that is not acceptable!

You couldn't get in with a single blow from a hammer, via any other method, not a chance, but if you can snap the lock in half then open the door in 20 seconds, I really don't want that!

However, keeping the face flush with the metal face is a good start. I realise a chisel would go through, but then it takes that much longer, is noisier, and we have a very effective neighbourhood watch here, low crime rate and good alarms. Hence drill resistance isn't really an issue on either external door (the rear door has no external lock to drill!)

Given the flaw, perhaps a bit of a redesign is in order, involving machined cylinder hulls rather than cast steel, which would not snap, but bend a little, stopping a "one whack attack"!

The placement of the holding screw (right through the middle of the weakest part!) was pretty poor from the start, IMHO. Redesigning to a better standard right now would be good, but the huge installed base! The best idea would be something like the existing standard, but with the extension of the hull downwards going upwards as well.

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This would allow for upgrades in a lot of doors, I think? A little modification with a drill and a good locksmith who knew what to do. Taking care not to screw the relocker mech, etc.!

[rohi]

Hello'
I'm new to this forum, in fact this is the first time i join a forum of any kind
However to your problem with extruding cilinders we have a solution in holland.
It's a cilindershield with a cover completly over the outside of the cilinder
It has a hardened rotating disk in it that allows you to insert the key
Prices start at 65,- Euro's
As soon as i figure out how to insert a picture, i'll show it to you

http://www.sierbeslagspecialist.nl/cata ... p-333.html
This might work also

excuse my english, has been a while since highschool:oops:

[NKT]

I thought of something like this, but the issue is, how would it stop someone hammering a chisel behind it, and using it to help break the lock off?

The other thing I thought of was to drill carefully (or cut with a Dremel) just behind the line that would be hidden by the door. This would mean that the end of the cylinder would break away before the cylinder itself snapped. It would provide clear indication of what had happened, and would still have a large portion of the lock in place to stop the door being opened. It would lower the picking resistance somewhat, since one or perhaps two of the pin stacks would be gone, but I think most criminals would give up at the point the snapper tool failed.

Also, the lock should still work with the face gone, since the key will still fit, it just won't go in as far. Then you just replace it at leisure.

[NKT]

Also, €65 is a lot for a small metal disc! That's ~£45 or ~$90US, which is more than the cost of most Euro locks! Just buy one that fits properly, and save money.

[Rockford]

It's likely the metal would be distorted though when the cylinder barrel and plug snaps at the new break point, and this may stop or hinder the plug turning - rendering it inoperable. Don't Corbin do something similiar already ?.

[NKT]

I've heard that Mul-T-Lock do, which is where I got the idea from.

Just need a way to make them anti-pull too, and bingo, it will be that bit less vulnurable to brute force. Just hope they don't chew gum...

There's a few ideas I have along these lines, as well as some research I'm doing into various things, but I'm not about to post them in the open. Restricted forum only, I think.

Oh, and rohi, welcome to the forum! Please read the rules and stay out of trouble. Great first post, thanks for the info. Oh, and your English is better than my Dutch, and also a lot of the "English" speakers round here!

[rohi]

Thanks for the welcome,
here some additional information on the secrity rozet as we call it overhere.
this is what is used for the highest step of security in holland, even higher than the dutch version of "Security by design"
i used them for government purposes many times, and these people are not easy to please.this rozet is fitted from the inside of the door with two hexagon bolts M6 trough a 4mm thick plate, the outside part has extended "tubes" which go in to the door for about 10mm.
this is so strong that you will not be able to get a chislle behind it, or something like a crowbarr.
the only way i got past one of these is taking the round silver part out with a milwaukee battery grinder, and than take the hart out of the cilinder with a glock zieh-fix .
alll this will take the better part of 20 minutes if you've got enough practice
and spare parts.
in controlled tests for SKG these will withstand 5 minutes of contacttime without giving in, and these guys are not happy if they cannot get to their goals of getting past securitymeasures. i have seen them in action, and the are not very forgiving to bad desing

[NKT]

I see, there is a lot more to it "behind the scenes"!

Thanks for the heads-up, I can look into it a bit more now, and refine my ideas further.