would you work for reactfast?

[quicklocks]

im trying to get a general census if they are a good company to work for.

[EvoRed]

Depends what you want from it. If you can get by fine without them then fair enough. If you want to earn in the early days whilst practising on the doors then fair enough.

Personally, I do work for them, as I do Safehouse UK, but turn most of it down due to the distances away a lot of jobs are for the money I'll earn out of it. If the money's OK though, I'll do it...for now. They pay quickly enough.

You can be asked to travel 40/50 miles for 45% of £50, which will get a negative response from me all year long or, as recently, just after 10pm, 60% of over £100 for a Yale just down the road...

If you could do with the work and the practise then sign up for them, you don't have to take the work. As said, I turn most of it down and they still call. If they find someone else in this area who'll do all the jobs I turn down and offer him the lot then fair enough, it'll be no skin off my nose...

And they may help a little to pay the bills but they certainly don't pay them. Maybe the TV licence!

[pinky]

ah but if no one worked for them, then everyone would have more good paying work.

[79commando]

Reactfast are certainly handy for picking up experience with and can be used to your advantage if you have values. They will offer you work in areas that you don't advertise in and as such it is all additional money. I would work for them if it took work from a driller killer or rip off company. If they offer me work in an area where one of my fellow real locksmiths work I would not accept it. It also gives you an insight into how much people are willing to pay a Locksmith (I know I am far too cheap). All of their customers have also agreed to the fee before you set off. You can work out for yourself if doing their work in your area is costing you jobs, especially if you are the next name in the yellow pages.

[EvoRed]

ah but if no one worked for them, then everyone would have more good paying work.

And wouldn't that be great to rid the country of these emergency maintenance companies? The directories are all due out any day now in my area, with ReactFast now advertising here, so no doubt 4 ads for them, couple for Safehouse, three or so for AE...

Sadly, I think the people that would keep to this are a drop in the ocean. With more and more Locksmiths now starting up, in no small way due to training being advertised everywhere these days, then these companies will have the desperate starters wondering where their next promised £1k+ a week is going to come from...

If you can't beat 'em, which doesn't look like being the case as these firms appear to me to be growing if anything then, for the moment anyway, you may as well join 'em...

[pinky]

not your fault mate, and newbies need the money, but all the time they are there , you will find it hard to establish yourself , if they grow much bigger it will be hard to ever establish yourself.

and as i know too , unless some sort of legislation stops them tradeing , then people will still work for them, they will still grow, until indepentents become a thing of the past and these companies are all thats left, not as far fetched as some may think, and then the locksmith art will die out and be replaced by drillers , and the locksmith will become a low paid manual worker of no trade importance, again not as far fetched as you may think, locksmiths now work in alot of areas for far less than they did 5 years ago.

so if you work for them now as a stop gap, then i would bank on it being semi permenent, because all the time people do , then they grow in strength, killing any future market you hope to get a bit of, but if you dont , then someone else will, it would take everyone to stop to get your business as strong as you would like it.

but those who work for reactfast and the other nationals have no right to moan about the pay rates, the jobs , the fact that they struggle to get buy as the nationals get all the work , as in working for them you too add to their strength and create the problem, so if you work for them dont moan about your lot, you made your bed so you must now live with it, you know the pay rates before you take the job, they are upfront this way, if you take the money no matter how little it is, you know the score, its not the guy on poor money from the nationals that has any right to moan, its the highly skilled guy who cannot make ends meet because nationals have the work that can moan.
nothing wrong in working for them, just dont moan about it and still take their money.

but now spare a thought on the newbies, so many new ones each month, which means less nationals work to go round, which again means less work for all those on the books, so then nationals have most of the work, but no one makes a good living, and its impossible to take them on, so more lockeys go bust, far fetched , not at all, look at the supermarkets, how many small shops, independent butchers, greengrocers , fishmongers etc do you see nowadays, it will one day happen , because so many are willing to work for them now, no matter how short a stop gap you convince yourself that it will be , you are playing your part in the end of the independent locksmith .

not a rant , but a vision of the future we have and we are creating.

[EvoRed]

I know exactly what you're saying Pinky, but what can you do? Apart from not subbing to them anymore, which is a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face. Some bugger will do it, that's for sure, so it won't hurt them. At the moment I do the jobs that I am prepared to do, nothing more...

I was on warrants a couple of weeks ago and the engineer said there was talk a while ago now of sending the engineers on a Locksmiths course so they could let themselves in. I don't know why we bother with all our tools, dedication and practise if it's that easy....

It's like ReactFast offering Locksmiths plumbing courses, or boarding and glazing repair courses, or even advice on how to do these repairs if you feel like doing them. As you say, soon companies like this will have an engineer that can provide their full range of maintenance jobs. Jack of all trades, master of sod all. God help us. God help the customers.

[79commando]

Up here in the colonies it is the Maintenance Companies that are hiting the locksmiths. Speaking to a couple of local locksmiths their business has died in the last couple of years due to ex builders etc starting up Maintenance Companies. They are basicaly a miniature version of Reactfast; pouncing on every new housing development with promises of looking after every eventiality from plumbing, locks and general ground maintenance. I know as I own a flat in Edinburgh and get ripped off regularly by maintenance fees. I tried to get everyone together to ditch the company that provides our service; but true to form only about 10% of us bothered so we are stuck with them (nothing worse than getting billed £45 for a cylinder lock).

I have been fortunate in getting a major contract but I forsee in the not too distant future even Reactfast will suffer from the Maintenance Companies.

I've given up Alphabet soup as it contains BSE.

[pinky]

its a sad and sorry state, i know the bills need paying, we all have them each and every month, and i fully understand peoples reasons for working for them, but evo as you say what can you do , im not having a pop and i know what your saying, but in saying what can you do and working for them anyway, you are in fact admitting defeat and makeing them stronger, and ultimately killing off your own business.

as to reps training, this has been tried on many occasions over past few years, and each time its all but failed, the reps are never properly trained and never committed enough to get good and never tooled up, so dont lose sleep over this, worry when reactfast nick the warrants too as they have a surplus of engineers in each area.

as to only doing the jobs you want to for them, this wont last long, you must do the lot good and bad, otherwise when the next few guys sign up and their willing to cover the lot, your dumped, they want 110% from you, or they drop you as soon as they can.

another worry of these big nationals, what happens when they have the work sewn up in your area, seen off most of the independents, warrants too, and then decide to make it a franchise at a cost, now your more out of pocket, they have you by the danglies, as stated this is how the supermarkets took over and killed the independent, or is our industry different ? may not happen next year, but remember this thread in the future, as every new guy signing up, and every job you do for them in your area is putting 1 more nail in your businesses coffin, and taking you 1 step nearer to the above.

but as you say what can you do, sadly this is what everyone says, but if lockeys got together, stuck together and all just said no and didnt work for them, then it would take power back from them, but alas people dont look ahead, dont see it comming or if they do, they justify their actions by saying what can you do, they would all like something done, as long as they dont have to do it and its done for them, sadly this never happens, and the big guys win, all because individuals within an industry cannot come together, i know it will never happen.

[acl]

Sadly Pinkys right thats what theyre aiming for ,to have us all working for them for peanuts.Soon there just isnt going to be enough work to go round,with AE and RF taking more and more of the yellow pages work and a new locksmith starting up every day.This is why i applaud Pinky for jacking the novice training.Everyone training should show these threads to the new trainees perhaps it would discourage many of the quick buck merchants.I dont know exact figures ,maybe Pinky could tell us,but im sure there are a fair few guys being trained every week .Doesnt it stand to reason it will affect us all? There are a couple of new guys round here and i for one am noticing it.The prices will be forced lower and lower and the workmanship will get worse and worse.(one of the new guys here grinds the bolts of mortice locks.Its the only way to get em open apparantly]. Pinkys told me there are a number of guys on this site even that have been trained by him or Ken within the last year who are now themselves training! You obviously know who you are so anyone who does this feel like justifying themselves?
I feel sorry for the guys who have put time and effort into learning recently because with all the competion about its going to be a hard slog.
I also would say dont work for RF or AE but i understand everyone needs to make a living and maybe dont have a choice so dont think im knocking you.I wish i could think of a way to get rid of them but i cant and untill some of the directories start acting fairly i cant see it changing.
As for the warrants,i think evo meant training the engineers up to do our job.This i cant see happening either as most of them just wouldnt be up to it untill theyd had a LOT of training and experience and besides they wouldnt actually want to do it.As for the reps doing it,well i knowLEB have a few who are trained but to what standard i dont know.For those of you who do warrants youll probably agree when i say a lot of the reps have problem enough FINDING the front doors let alone opening the bloody things!
Andy

[toomush2drink]

I refuse to work for them for thefact they hide their prices and especially after the rants we had on here from their respresentitive. I have to say i agree that working for them is helping them kill my own business so ive taken a stance by not working for them. What we really need to sort out this industry is to sort out all these training schools as they are the ones single handedly killing the industry. Each week or weekend another "qualified locksmith" hits the market thus diluting any skills along the way. Over the years the mla was the only training school but others saw a market and went for it. The mla didnt seem to play catch up and re assert itself as the industry leader and now we have the situation we are in. Im not knocking the mla in any way but if anyone disagrees please say so. It seems to me that for every "qualified locksmith" thats trained up maybe 1 in 20 sets up a training school. Lets say at least 10 people do a course a week or over a weekend at the various different training schools thats at least 40 new lockies a month but over a year thats 480 locksmiths a year. These figures are very conservative and i think its much higher. We could be looking at at least another 10 training schools per year at this rate this is what needs addressing.
The sooner we have legislation on this the better, sure the mla would probably be the leading association meaning we have to join if not already members but thats not a really big deal if you know your stuff and its for the good of your proffession.

Well thats a can of worms ive opened but this stuff needs discussing to make people aware of what is around the corner just as pinky has said, i dont think his vision of the future is too far fetched.

"United we stand divided we fall"

[pinky]

approx figures are more like 100 per month attending various training courses, and nearer 1200 per year being trained, its not rocket science what the outcome will be.

plenty of opportunity left in training , but training so called locksmiths , not novices.

trouble is the rots set, too many are willing to work for reactfast and the like, and i dont blame reactfast, they are a business, but a clever one, building their business whilst killing yours, and useing you to do it.

if you have no option but to work for these guys to pay the bills, then thats your choice and your decision, and no one will slate you for it, but dont moan later about your business failing to these guys, as you will have helped them.

[EvoRed]

You can certainly see the increase in Locksmith ads in the directories. Got the YP through today. Five pages of Lockies last year, nine this year.

Three AE ads, just the two for ReactFast, Able Locks... And me near enough on the last page, not a surprise! Don't go in for all that ......0000AAAAA crap myself. Only consolation is the Churchill Insurance ad card is on the same page so maybe it'll help with the book falling open there!

[Floater]

Reactfast & other emergency companys that have multiple ads will always have people willing to work for them.
The only way that I can see this changing is if we all have to be licienced.
That way you would lose the driller and who would want to work for 45% then?

[sledge-it]

Supermarkets killed off their small shop competition in two ways. Everything was in one place,and they were cheaper!
With us surely the shoe is on the other foot!
We are always saying on here how we are cheaper than the nationals. We also try to adopt a N.D.E. approach.
Let's advertise this!
Pinky and Toomush are showing the rest of us the way forward!