would you work for reactfast?

[pinky]

evo , ring abel, and often ae answer the phone.

its fine being nde and its fine being cheaper, but if customers opening the phonebook or calling the various 118 services continue to only see nationals adds and be given nationals numbers, then it will make little difference.

clever marketing, useing the local lockey to kill off his own business and paying peanuts for it, is winning the day, they have already beat you on the ad side of things, and they will kill off all competition, until all lockeys unite against them and refuse to work for their meagre handouts, heed the warning as unless something is done the day is comming and fast.
every nde opening you do for them enhances their own reputation.

the only people that can stop them is the locksmith himself, EVO , if they had no one in your area they wouldnt advertise it, as you cover work for them they advertise it, in doing so they will get many more lockeys to work your area too, if they dont advertise your area its because no one will cover their work there.

[EvoRed]

every nde opening you do for them enhances their own reputation

Not completely sure about that with the prices they often charge... I mean, I've had to charge near on £130 a couple of times to slip a Yale!

Imagine if the Locksmith performing the NDE opening told the customer why the charges are so high, i.e. because they are near enough paying twice and that he, being an independent, could have got them in, as he has done, at a lot cheaper cost. Then proceeded to hand the customer a business card or two...

[acl]

Evo not haveing a go here mate but, you say every nde opening a locksmiths does for them enhances their reputatition ,not sure wether this is true or not but what do you think you turning up to slip a yale and charging £130 does to yours? Its you and your van the custommer sees,its you they think has ripped them off.
Im not sure as leaving one of your own cards on other peopls jobs is good practice really .
The real issue here is as Pinky says we are not getting the opportunaty to quote for these jobs because yp continue to allow multiple advertising.Ive heard a lot about alliances etc on this site to enhance the name of the nde locksmith and stamp out the driller killers ,which i agree with but i think if weve got any clout at all ,the very best thing we could do for the decent lockie is to address the multiple add issue.Im not sure how but im sure someone could come up with something......
Andy

[pinky]

ACL is right, and evo , every card you give out , may get your name out there.
but when this person is locked out again, your card would be indoors, she phones 118 again and you turn up again for reactfast.

like it or not, you work for them now , you will regret it in the end , you try and justify it by saying you have to, well if you have to now, you sure as hell will have to when they clean up your area, every £20 you earn from them, is £50 you have lost.

the ads will double next year if they increase engineers and if work comes in.

the yellow pages are also money oriented, unless every locksmith in the country threatens to pull out of YP unless multiple ads are stopped with them, it wont happen. and we all know locksmiths and new locksmiths cannot stick together, after all nationals pay the bills, ( for now ).

trust me , more engineers will sign up in your area, and if you only do selected jobs you wont pay the bills and you will eventualy be binned, your work will drop and you are finished, they wont give a about you and your bills then, they will have put you down and will end up taking over, and you helped them doing it for them.

human nature suggests you will look for different ways to justify working for them, and satisfy your own mind, and you will justify it to yourself, one day though you will look back and realise that you killed off your own business, and i wouldnt mind betting they all turn into franchises once they dominate areas nationwide.

the customer suffers yes, and you charge £130 and tell them it would be cheaper with you, but you just ripped them off, and they will phone round for quotes next time, so you may not get job still.

its an uphill struggle, but every one who works for them , and everyone who uses them as a stepping stone, strengthens them more, and then moans as they cant compete with them.

The key is to unite all locksmiths to make a stance, power in numbers, without this , its too late even now to change things, theres always plumbing chaps.

[toomush2drink]

Well ive thrown down the gauntlet against reactfast by advertising my prices, not sure if the yellow pages will allow it but its all over my van so if anyone who has used reactfast sees it they know they got ripped off. Also my prices are on my website, unlike reactfast i have nothing to hide and i dont make them up depending on the customer If others did this we could take them on. Lets face it if they had to drop their prices who would sub for them ?

[acl]

Toomush ,i think the price advertising could be a good idea as you know but the problem here is that the customer has to actually see those prices which theyre not going to do if your ad is back on page 5 or 6.
Andy

[toomush2drink]

Thats true acl but it only needs a few people to see the price and tell others lets face it we all remember a good price so if they do ring them again next time the seed has been planted. One of my competitors saw my van today and came up to ask if i could put it up a bit, it was tongue in cheek but its obviously working

[EvoRed]

I didn't say I gave them one of my cards, I said imagine...!

Anyway, imagine this too...the customer has just been charged £130, to which I say "sorry, nothing I can do on the price, I don't set them". The customer is then told that you would have done the same job for £60, to which they are frustrated that they have effectively paid twice, once for someone to answer the phone and again for a Locksmith to do the job.

Are they not going to look at their RF job sheet once I'm gone, and the £130 total, and then look at my card, annoyed at the fact they could have saved £70? Are they not, at the very least, going to remember the names, i.e. who to avoid next time, remember to try to spot the nationals, and who will do it for half the price? I know I would.

I'm not trying to think of ways to justify myself Pinky. Another nipper on the way soon, the missus will have to give up work... At the moment, if I'm not doing anything, it seems foolish to turn down a job that could be just down the road, be it for myself, RF, Safehouse, AE...

I know what people are saying and agree with a lot of it but we, on here, are the tip of the iceberg. If I were to stop subbing to RF then there are others in my area that will do it, I have no doubt. So RF plod on, and my business could suffer because of them anyway. Only I haven't got a slice of the RF cake in the process. The competition, who's in it for a fast buck, has had that pleasure!

If the people on here represented most UK Lockies then, fair enough, I would be the first (well maybe second behind ACL in his bid for equal opportunities in advertising!) to stop subbing for the nationals. With the amount of people that are prepared to do this though, I doubt it will make any difference as there are so many newbies learning the trade these days through the 1001 trainers out there, that they will simply sub for the nationals as, obviously, work is being spread about more and more so they will have very little just after starting up.

I was on warrants this morning and RF rang twice giving me jobs. "Sorry, busy, no can do". As I say, I do no more than 1 in 4 jobs that they give me (probably less in fact) yet, somehow, I feel like the man that is going to bring the independent Lockie down on his knees before long!

[EvoRed]

And I agree with ACL, "EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES IN ADVERTISING"!

If the directories, etc. didn't allow them to have multiple ads, and you were only allowed one, then it would be fair game for all. Can't see what could be done for this to change myself. Barring, as Pinky says, all the country's Locksmiths pulling their ads. Would this happen? Again, no chance really is there?

Also, if there weren't so many inexperienced trainers out there training people up, there wouldn't be the abundance of Locksmiths around prepared to sub for the nationals as you'd hopefully be content with your own work.

So, there you have it, blame it on YP and Don Braidwood!

[pinky]

why single out poor old donald, well why not i suppose.
you are not the one bringing down the independent, its everyone covering a job for them, if all lockies in the area said no to doing the job for them, then one of those lockies would get the job when the national fail to cover it.
its the getting lockies in each area to stand up and have the danglies to do it, though i too dont think it will happen.

toomush has taken them on to a degree in his area, throwing the gauntlet down, i have in mine , and i really dont need their shilling , but instead of covering peanut jobs for them, ive gone out knocking on doors for contracts, and picked up enough to keep me going nicely at mo, so that i dont rely upon the call out market, im not unique, in fact im the worst salesman ever, and if i can do it, then so can anyone else.

the rot is a number of things

1 ) The number of training firms filling newbies heads with easy riches
2 ) The number of inexperienced and newbie lockies training
3 ) The advertiseing culture
4 ) The nationals working away at finishing the independent
5 ) The independent helping the national do this
6 ) Lack of legislation , registration and skills testing
7 ) lack of a trustworthy organised governing body

we could go on and on, but if everyone takes the attitude that they are just the tip of the iceburg and can do nothing about it, then nothing will ever be done, everyone wants it, but they want it done for them, and no body is willing to do anything, and sadly thats the attitude everywhere, therfore it will happen and quicker than all forsee, as nothing is standing in the nationals way.

as i said earlier, not having a pop, your attitude is no different than the majority, and its this that makes it impossible to unite locksmiths in an area, so i think we must accept that the nationals will win hands down, lets hope they keep loyalty with those that have helped build there business along the way, somehow i doubt they will.

they are here to stay

[dr feelgood]

hi folks
i think what we need is a locksmiths organisation, does anybody know of one? ok what we need is an organisation with balls, one that will stand up for our trade and not sit and "fiddle while rome burns", i think the rot has set in and we have gone beyond the point where we can rescue our trade from the franchised/nationals. The trouble with this problem is that if you refuse to do a job one of the fresh faced hypnotised zombies from the local school of schlocksmiths will, i know because i have refused to work for any of these nationals and been told later of who had attended, i would sooner stack shelves at tesco, which may happen, i think it was grouch marks who said "these are my priciples, and if you dont like them i have others", i dont have others, so bring on the canned food. if a decent price was paid for our services, i and most locksmiths wouldnt have an axe to grind, but you are being ripped off the moment you start your engine, that would stick in the pit of my stomach, i dont think for one minute there would be any loyalty to you from said nationals, as soon as a cheaper locksmith was available you would be forgotten, unless they were really in the "brown and smelly" and had to get a job done. i think it is time to wake up and smell the WD40, and get our locksmith organisations to represent us, and stop hob knobbing around at coventions in gold chains and scoffing expensive food!
the doc

[acl]

Doc here here i agree its time an association stood up for us but we know thats not going to happen is it?!
Regarding the directories, what they dont like is bad publicity.surely there must be a way of bringing this multiple advertising out in the open.Perhaps one of your many tv appearances Pinky?! A newspaper article maybe.Does everyone moan at their yp rep about this ?Has anyone been higher?
We shouldnt roll over and die on this matter we need to make a fuss.
Who really wants to be part of a reactfast franchise?
Andy

[Wallaby]

well done dr feelgood, you have summed up what is needed and i feel it in the wind that it is coming , previous associations have made little progress and have enjoyed reeling in the money rather than doing something positive for the industry .......

i took the stand a while ago (as i previously posted) and will not take calls from the nationals such as sosecure, i will get the call eventually as they cant get anybody else to do it ..... together we win, divided we fall .. (feel sick if you like but you know what i mean ! )

[dr feelgood]

regarding yellow pages and all the directories, they are out to sell space in their book, they have no interest in the squabbles between businesses they advertise as long as the buisiness is not offensive or illegal,(although i know we may find the nationals offensive), im sure there is a criteria, as to what they will accept as an ad, so if mr aaaaaaaa+++++sooper dooper locksmith pays his money, in goes the ad, thats the way it is, i dont think for one minute there are enough locksmiths who would stick together, and would have enough clout to make the directories change any of their policies on advertising. a type of approved and vetted locksmith registration scheme is the way forward, not the type where you pay you membership fee and get a free van logo to show you are in some way bona fide, but one where you have to show a degree of skill and intellect and be regularly checked to ensure a good value and quality of service are maintained, and even have some of your jobs inspected,(with the customers approval of course), only then will we start to take control of our industry.
the doc

[acl]

The aaaa ...... locksmith is not what were talking about here its the multiple advertising i couldnt give a toss wether rf had a million ....s infront of their name or had a whole page ad its the fact that they have 4 ads on one page ,which dupes the customer into thinking they have the choice of 4 different locksmiths.Although im not sure on how legal it is it sure as he*l aint ethical !
Evo going back to the card leaving issue.I always think that could work out against you, its only got to get back to someone at rf (and these things always do) and you dont get ANY more work from them.
psI dont think its you thats at fault for bringing the demise of the Independent locksmith mate(not just you anyway!)
Andy