Dudley Combination Locks

[Sabin37]

Now that I look back, I see that the last number, 59ish, would actually fit in as the combination for this lock.

My last number is 35 not 59. Anyways, you had it except for 22, which should have been 59. Otherwise it would have worked because my combination is 13-59-35.

For lock 1 you came up with 2-14-26. If it's rearranged into 14-2-26, it is very close except for the last number. The sticking point that contained the last number did not change from CW to CCW. My combination for lock 1 is 13-3-50.

Do you want another lock to crack?

[rayman452]

Yes yes ofcourse. If Im comming close to guessing two numbers, its only a matter of time before I can refine it.

[Sabin37]

rayman, do you have much experience with gray-dialed Dudleys?

I was going to give you the sticking points for a gray-dialed Dudley but there was no difference between CW and CCW. I'll still post the single set of points if you want me to.

[Orange_Crusader]

Really, no difference at all? Not even a 0.1-0.5 difference? Odd.. Then again, I haven't had a chance to get any grey-dialed Dudley's, so this is new to me.

I wish we had one of every colour dial Dudley to open up, compare parts (i.e. disks, position of gates, measurements, etc.). Anyone have anyh thoughts to what we're seeing (and why) with the differences in the sticking points? It shouldn't be the gates (false and real) being reversed, since the disks are moved along with the last one, and therefoe would produce different results for every point, but they don't.

[rayman452]

I have a grey one on my locker. It probally wont compare with the ones now today, sinec this one my dad used in school...So its like 35+ years. I also talked to the guy I know. He said that he could get cut off locks for me, since he thought I was talking about whole locks at first. Gates, here we come...

[Orange_Crusader]

Ok, long story short, I got a lock today. It's a blue dudley, it was my friend's lock, but he was the target of a few pranks (there's a small group intent or playing pranks and practical jokes on everyone. Locks and lockers are their specialties. White-out, foodstuffs, glue, etc. are their medium.), and he decided to throw out the lock, and get a new one. I asked, and I got the lock. It's pretty beat up, it was covered in glue, white-out, honey and some vinegar when I got it. Sticky, messy, but it spins well, and it'll work. I've cleaned it up a bit, and it's good as new. No more vinegar smell, and the glue is gone. There's a bit of white-ou on the dial, and some paint is missing from it. It spins unusally smoothly for such a beat up lock.

Ok, for now, it's open. I don't know the combo (I'll ask, but I haven't yet), and I might try to get it without asking (using the points).

Ok, I think it might just be broken... The plate that locks it is covering up the hole for the shackle on the inside. The dial spins freely, which it shouldn't if the lock wasn't broken. I might just hack this one apart with the Dremel. Worth a shot to get it fixed first for finding out the combo, if possible, though.

[rayman452]

Post the sticking points, and Ill see if my way works now. If the combos I give you dont work, then hack it open. If they do work, still hack it open. Either way, get sticking points and let us attempt before you open it.

[Orange_Crusader]

I think I may not have a choice. The locking plate is past the point of no return (cannot be slid back to all ow the shackle to go in). The shackle also feels "loose", and pulling it up or down has no effect on the dial at all. I'll keep trying, though. Is worse comes to worst, I'll carefully hack the front lip, leaving a few small bits (bendable, or just facing straight up) so that it can be put back in and used for testing.

I'd like to know, d_b, was the lock's mechanisms riveted, welded, or otherwise secured to the back or sides of the lock, in a way that couldn't be compromised without destroying the lock? I'm hoping that it'll all just slip out, once the front lip is taken care of, maybe with some pieces of metal on the case to keep the bits from moving. I hope it'll still be fixable/lockable/unlockable once it;s taken apart. I wouldn't like to waste this lock just to take a look, converting it into a Dudley version or a cutaway would be best, but I'd like to know if it's possible or plausible.

[Omerta]

I saw this thread awhile ago, tried to understand the complicated sticking points and all, couldn't get anything...recently saw a TV show "How its made" showing how they make dudleys, and the way the dials are made...i wasn't recording at that point but i am now recording all episodes hope to see that re-run...maybe help a bit, don't get mad or post anything negative about this if it doesn't help, proving that we can crack dudleys might force the company to improve their design

[Sabin37]

That would have been a good episode to watch.

To get the sticking points in a Dudley, pull up on the shackle and then try to turn the dial. You will notice that the dial only moves within a range of about 3 numbers. That is one of the sticking points. There are 10 sticking points on the lock and to get them all, just keep turning the dial a bit and pull up on the shackle to make it stick in a different spot. If your sticking point starts at 6 and goes to 9, then your sticking point is 6-9. If you look back in the thread, you will see that sometimes the sticking points are in between two numbers. For example, 4.5-7.5.

Also, there are two different sets of sticking points. 10 points when you turn the dial clockwise and 10 points when you turn the dial counter-clockwise. Some of the points won't change from CW to CCW, but some will.

If you post your 10 sticking points for the clockwise direction and your 10 points for counter-clockwise, someone here will attempt to crack your lock. Only through much practice can we find an effective method for cracking Dudleys, so I encourage you to post your sticking points.

P.S. - Please tell us the color of the dial too.

[rayman452]

YES!!!! Please attempt to get this episode. If we can see what they do, then we will most likely be able to crack it. Now the problem is finding a way to show us...

[digital_blue]

YES!!!! Please attempt to get this episode. If we can see what they do, then we will most likely be able to crack it. Now the problem is finding a way to show us...

Are you kidding me? You've already seen every single working part inside one of these things. How exactly is seeing how they put it together gonna help you? I have a small hunch that the "Counting to infinity" thread will come to a satisfactory conclusion sometime before this one will.

db

[Orange_Crusader]

Well, obviously how it's put together won't help. What I'll be looking for is how the combo is chosen, whether it's randomly generated, by a chart or list, whether it has anything to do with the number on the bottom (ID purposes for example). I watch How it's Made quite a bit, and haven't seen that episode. I doubt it'll give us any big details, Dudley is smarter than to expose how to crack their locks (weaknesses, imperfections, etc.) on such a show.

In related news, I finally hacked the lock I got open. I used a metal file, a sharp screwdriver, and a pair of Vice-Grips. Do the math, it's not rocket surgery.

There's a big difference between seeing the internals on here, and having the lock in your hand. The one I have is considerably beat up. Inside, there are remnants of the prank that broke it and got it into my hands, some metal shavings (wear and tear, the lock is about 2 or 3 years old, used in a high school daily), and some really dirty and worn down grease, presumably for lubrication of the lock parts.

d_b's pictures still don't do the oddities of the lock justice. It's an illusion, basically. The disks are about penny-sized (Canadian penny, if it makes any difference), and the entire thing seems very simple, but gives almost no clues to its inner workings from the outside. I honestly think Dudley could've made it about half the size it is now, there's a lot of empty space in there.

There are a few bits that are bent from heavy use, and the case metal is really brass, it's just plated silver. The disks are what interest me in this lock. They're the exact same as d_b's, except for wear and tear, and the indents. Each disk has two very precise and neat indents, one facing each way (top/bottom). The indents are what decide the combo numbers, each in their relation to the gate, to the last disk's moving nub (so, the last (really first, going in the combo number order) disk's combo is influenced by the position of it's combo indent (the one of the top), by the 2nd disk's moving nub, which is influenced by the 2nd disk's combo nub, which is influenced by the 3rd disk's moving nub, which is in turn influenced by its relation to the dial point. Wow.), to the rest of the disks, and so on. This is simple in construction, brilliant in how it works, this is deep stuff.

I had a small theory going about the order of the disks, that they were reversed from what we thought (first disk is really the 10-gated one, but is last in the combo order), that the disk are arranged backwards, with the last disk on top, which it is (rayman might remember this from MSN, at least partially). Each also has a number stamped into it. The gates have either unusually large bit cut out of the outer edge (ramp-like, so the shackle can spin the disk to the right spot if it's a bit off), or that, plus a large amount of wear and tear.

The lock is still fully functional (well, not to lock anything :p ), so I'll get the sticking points shortly. The dial face has some small bits that keep it lined up properly, so they'll be accurate. Any questions/comments/concerns?

[rayman452]

Any pictures?

[jim912]

Hello,

I am new to this board but I have been reading and following this topic lately and am very interested in it. I am eager to help out in any way I can. Mathematics and logic are my strengths, so maybe I might be able to find some sort of pattern between the numbers at the bottom and the combinations. Though common sense dictates that it would be stupid to not just randomly determine the combinations, I vaguely remember hearing somewhere that the service people at Dudley can provide your combination if you send them the number at the bottom. Perhaps it's just my imagination, but assuming that's true, then I doubt they look up in a stored database of the combinations of all the locks - most likely they perform some sort of logical/mathematical operation on that identification number to get the combo. Of course, it wouldn't be a straightforward algorithm. By the way, it seems that only certain locks contain those numbers and not others.

Myself, I do have three blue-dial locks at the moment: Though I do not know their combinations, I will post the ID numbers to start us off in case anyone else might be interested in this line of thought:

(Dial color, "Letter at back" ID number)

Blue dial, "F" RA087152
Blue dial, "G" AC124905
Blue dial, "G" AC124908

I encourage you to post your ID numbers as well, preferably along with the combination #s if possible. The more numbers we have the more likely a combination can be found if there is one. Thanks.

Also, I remember someone mentioning earlier in this thread the idea that one can spin the dial to certain locations and measure the amount the shackle will move using a micrometer. Unless the three wheels have exactly the same diameter to the 1/1000th inch, the shackle will pull *slightly* farther when the largest wheel is aligned in the correct position (So in stead of pushing against the largest wheel, the "claw" thing pushes against the second largest wheel, etc.) By gathering all three wheels and turning them in unison, it'll only take one full rotation, stopping periodically, to find the sweet spot. Now everything after this is speculation, but you should be able to determine exactly which wheel it is by doing the same thing counter-clockwise, and if the numbers differ by 12 then it's the innermost (first number); by 6 then it's the middle (second), by 0 then it's the frontmost (third). It shouldn't be too difficult to repeat this process successively with the remaining two numbers, expecially if it's the first number you just found out.

-Jimbo