yale padlock

[bryan]

hello, all.

i've decided to take up lock picking as a hobby and after reading most of the faqs, downloading documents and watching themovies (when the links worked!), i now have an understanding of how a lock works.

using the templates, a grind wheel and some hacksaw blades, i made some picks and wrenches and purchased a padlock (yale - DEB1 stamped on the bottom - security rating 4).



i know i'm doing something right as when i release pressure on the plug, i hear three distinct clicks as the pins are released.

i can see the "split" in the front pin but it seems it can be captured in two distinct positions but as i have the keys, i know that i have to push this pin right up into the plug (cheat!)



my questions are:

is this a mushroom or spool pin?

if so, is there any chance there could be more than one in the padlock?

thanks in advance!

[Elijah]

I can't quite tell from the picture and I don't deal with security pins very much yet but it seems like that could be a serrated bottom pin. I have some of those in my American 700 series.

[master in training]

welcome to the forum!

if anything i'd gues it could be a spool driver pin, or maybe a mushroom, but it looks a little square to be honest. perhaps its a serrated driver and the pictures just makes the serration look deep and big, who knows! i'e never touched one of these before, looks secure though, i wonder if someone else has one or i could get one to play with

try putting some tension on the lock and lifting the first pin, if it doesnt go up too smoothly and feels like its going through grooves, or forces your tension wrench back a bit as you lift it, it could be a security pin. if it is, its handy that its the first pin because you can actually see it, as opposed to be deep inside the lock.

[Varjeal]

I, too, would hazard a guess in saying that's a spool driver pin. As mentioned before, you'll find out quick enough if the plug turns slightly and then locks up solid.

[bryan]

thanks for the welcome and thanks for your answers / pointers.

i'm still plugging away at this particular beast. maybe i should have bought a smaller, cheaper lock... i think i'll try another yale with a security rating of 1!

[toomush2drink]

Yales normally have 2 spools in this type of lock, try the last or second to last pin as well as that front one for spools. Do a search on security pins as ive posted on this before. Yales can be tricky but not impossible and with practice you willl be opening that in no time. Try raking it first to catch it on the spools, you know this has happened when the plug turnsa few degrees but no more. Now lift that first pin with little tension and the plug will try to turn back, this is the feeling a spool pin gives so now you can work out which of the others is a spool.

goodluck

[Mad Mick]

Hi bryan, welcome to the site.

Firstly, congratulations on doing a lot of research, succesfully making some nice picks and having a go at picking before posting. (quick tip though, the picks appear to have accumulated a lot of brass on the flanks - give them a finish with some fine grit sandpaper such as 600 wet 'n dry)

Secondly, the choice of lock may be a little difficult for starters, since it contains security pins, but you have already identified that they are present - kudos. The first driver does indeed look like a spool (nice macro BTW), which will allow the plug to rotate a few degrees, then come to a hard stop when false set. Further picking of this false set pin will make the tension wrench push back against your applied force until the pin is correctly set, where you'll feel the plug give and then you'll move on to find the next most bound pin in a different stack.

I'm on the wrong side of the pond to give a definite answer on this Yale, but expect more than one security pin in this lock. The positions will probably vary.

You are getting three clicks when releasing tension...this means a possible three pins are correctly set, but there are more in this lock. To count the number of pins in the lock, insert the flat underside of a pick towards the pins and push upwards. Slowly withdraw the pick and count the clicks as the pins drop back into place. This will tell you how many stacks are used, as will the key (yours looks like five, IMO)

[bryan]

toomush2drink / Mad Mick

thank you very much for your advice / comments.

i have attempted to open the yale but i just cant get past the 3 pin mark. i think i may have bitten off more than i can chew with this bad boy!

luckily, patience is one of my virtues so after a few hours, i decided to put the yale on the back burner.

what i then did was go to my local "homebase" (what americans would call a "hardware store") and look for another yale padlock with a lower security rating. they had some "2s" but you had to buy a pack of 4 for about £13... if they all had different keys, i would have bought them.

then i remembered i had an old padlock (with key) up in the attic!

it's a cheap, unbranded one but enough to give a beginner a challenge, i think

i have to say at this point that my wife thinks i'm mad... i sit on the settee with my set of picks and she says it seems like i'm in a trance

to cut a long story short, i managed to get the padlock open... the fact that i had actually picked it but the hasp didn't pop open because it was rusty didn't detract from the great feeling of accomplishment i got when i eventually realised my mistake!

[Mad Mick]

Sometimes, the heel/toe locking springs in a padlock can minimise the feel of when the cylinder is actually picked. You continue picking a picked lock, when all that is required, is a turn of the plug with something a little more substantial than a tension wrench. The rust could have been a factor as to why the shackle didn't immediately pop, but the most-likely reason is that you didn't realise the cylinder was picked, due to the springs.

A key_in_knob lock, or a dead-bolt lock doesn't generally have this 'problem' and thus, the cylinder is free to turn once picked. Bear this in mind, and get one or more of the above locks to practise on. Now that you've opened the padlock though, you could keep it to one side as a 'confidence-lock', which you can go back to and pick when you're struggling with an unknown lock. Or, you could concentrate with this lock and try different picks...hook instead of half-diamond, then get another lock when this opens after you sneeze.

If the wife thinks you're mad, let her have a go. You may be humbled though! Explain the concept of picking a lock, describe the methods used, the feeling of when a pin is set, then sit back and enjoy your brief moment of superiority.....then reach for the tissues when she opens the lock far quicker that you can.....repeatedly. You have been warned.

[mattc]

Sorry if I'm flogging a dead horse here (can't bear to open a new topic), but I got hold of a new Yale padlock the other day (model DAB1) and am a touch confused by what I found when I opened it. Of the five pin stacks, four had security pins which is a few more than I expected beforehand, but this is the first lock I've stripped which had spool pins of different heights, varying from about 3mm to 7mm. Has anyone else encountered these or have I just been lucky/naiive?

[MrB]

Some locks are assembled with different length driver pins so that the total length of the pin stack remains the same for all stacks. This makes the feedback more equal for each of the pins.

In a more typical lock with equal length driver pins, a skilled picker could learn something about length of the key pins by pushing each stack up all the way and feeling the different amount of travel or spring compression required.

[toomush2drink]

Sounds very much like the new "X" series of yale locks. Very hard to pick and all sorts of nasty anti picking pins etc.

[mattc]

Hard to pick - you're not kidding! It is, fortunately, easy to strip and re-pin with the spools in varying numbers/positions. A good learning tool.

[civicboy28]

I got beat by a Legge Rim cylinder the other day. when i took it apart i saw it had 4 security pins. so have fun with that yale. 4 security pins is hard.

[gary call]

Bryan.
the best thing i would recommend is get your hands on a few Tri-Circle padlocks.get them from market stalls for a quid.
no security pins,but some have stumped me for quite a while.
this would be a better start than a No4 yale.which is possibly the hardest domestic/common lock you will come about.

ps.nice one on the home brew picks.

Gary