Security check?

by **CowGoMoo** » 6 May 2005 7:48

Hey all, total newbie here. Sorry to create a new topic out of the blue, but I didn't find anything related to my first question.

I'm about to go through a fairly exhaustive security check - government job - and, based on what I've read, purchasing lockpicks online will get you put into a database somewhere, in addition to the credit card record. Either way, there's a good chance it'll come up. I'd like to think owning lockpicks isn't a big deal, but doubt that's a safe assumption. Anyone here have any idea?

Secondly, just to clarify: My interpretation of Section 25 of the UK Theft Act is that you can't actually be convicted for carrying picks unless intent to steal is proven. Am I correct, and are there any historical rulings to go by? I don't have any plans to take them everywhere, but...

Sect 25. Going equipped for stealing, etc.
(1) A person shall be guilty of an offence if when not at his place of abode, he has with him any article for use in the course of or in connection with any burglary, theft or cheat.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years.
(3) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, proof that he had with him any article made or adapted for use in committing a burglary, theft or cheat shall be evidence that he had it with him for such use.
(4) Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is, or whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be, committing an offence under this section.
(5) For purposes of this section an offence under section 12(1) of this Act of taking a conveyance shall be treated as theft, and â€˜cheatâ€™ means an offence under section 15 of this Act.

by **digital_blue** » 6 May 2005 8:04

I'm always up for a good conspiracy or two but I have a tough time buying that just the act of ordering lockpick tools will put your name in a government database. First off, how would they know? Where did you order your picks from? Are they providing this data to the authorities? And are they doing this without your knowledge? Which arm of the government is collecting this data? For what purpose? How would it be given to local authorities? When this security check is run, will they be accessing *that* database? What is *that* database, and what other information is stored in it? I gather you're in the UK, so maybe it's different from the US or Canada, but I don't think the government has "a file" on you that everything just gets stuck into like your primary school did.

Anyway... as always... just my thought.

db

by **SFGOON** » 6 May 2005 8:32

What level of clearance are you going for? I can't imagine anything short of an SCI warranting that caliber of investigation. Generally, what is conducted is a local and national agency backround check (criminal records,) a credit check, interviews with references and other people they fish out, a polygrpah exam, and a psych exam. The process is very long and expensive. Having lockpicks is by no means any sort of disqualifier, go ahead and disclose it to your investigator.

by **CowGoMoo** » 6 May 2005 9:21

Er, "database" might have been a bit misleading. I was just referring to the fact that - according to one of the FAQs I read here - vendors keep track of everyone who purchases picks. Normally I wouldn't give it a second thought, but with this business coming up...

And no, I don't really know how deep the thing goes - I'm just being cautious. I'm (in the process of) going into military communications, which requires a reasonable level of clearance. The whole thing will take a ridiculous amount of time - months at best - and I have to wonder how much of that reflects thoroughness, as opposed to typically slow bureaucracy.

by **SFGOON** » 6 May 2005 12:29

Right. You're getting a secret then, a local agency check and a credit check. Don't worry about it, unless you have some sort of record or bad debt you're gonna get the clearance.

by **vector40** » 6 May 2005 16:42

Er... just to point it out, you guys do live in different countries.

by **MrB** » 6 May 2005 16:49

The British security agencies do secretly keep files on people who are suspected of terrorist or subversive activities, but they need a reason to suspect someone in the first place. They don't have the resources to keep tabs on everyone. It's highly unlikely that just buying a few tools with your credit card is going to get you noticed. Now if you have been buying detonators, C4, or surface-to-air missiles from a website, that would be a different matter...

by **SFGOON** » 6 May 2005 20:49

I should have known by the verbage that this guy wasn't American, he actually used the language right. Good luck to you buddy, maybe we'll see each other in the sandbox.

by **Faxman** » 15 Jul 2005 4:57

It never ceases to amaze.

I don't know if it is on purpose, or by accident, that media has programmed us into believing that our every move is watched and recorded, when the truth is alot less frightening.

Don't get me wrong, I am well aware of the POTENTIAL for big brother and his peripherals to hone in on us in a most uncomfortable way, as I am aware that certain government agencies (Military, Inteligence services Etc.) do closely monitor their employees. The overall public though?

I just cannot believe that their is that much manpower and hardware being used to track every little potential threat to order that comes out of the realm of JoePublic.

As far as the recording of info when people purchase iffy merchandise like lockpicks. By law your info MUST be documented, the same as if you buy firearms, or explosives material. The " :twisted:

DATABASE

" however, is probably some dusty room full of boxes, where the proprietor of the business must store your info is located. Here, all info like that must be kept fo 7 years. I am not sure what the timeframe is elsewhere.

Anyway, that is my rant. Just a series of opinions.

by **digital_blue** » 15 Jul 2005 9:00

I'm willing to bet that there is no requirements on the part of an owner of a locksmith supply company to keep detailed records, apart from the normal accounting requirements placed on any business. I have a serious problem believing the any governement agency gives two licks who's ordering lockpick tools. I would think they'd be far more interested in directing valuable resources to determining who is purchasing large amounts of bomb-making supplies or cough syrup, and I'm not even sure they monitor that stuff all that close.

I'm sure many people here *think* they're doing something ultra-sneaky by picing locks in their basement but really... it's just lockpicking. Come on! We're picking freakin' locks, not planning a grand heist. I'm sure they know that.

db

by **sportsguy** » 15 Jul 2005 9:48

MrB wrote: Now if you have been buying detonators, C4, or surface-to-air missiles from a website, that would be a different matter...

Speaking of which, where does one go online to purchase a missile? Not that I'm looking...

Seriously, I have been through security checks before (though I doubt they would be quite so thorough as your upcoming one given the differences in jobs (spam gaming v. military communications)). The checks take a long time because of the requesting of documents, etc. It's HIGHLY unlikely purchasing picks is going to be a concern for you.

...and, if you would rather avoid the whole thing, but still want picks, there are lots of helpful how-to's on this site to show you how to MAKE your own picks very cheaply and with relative ease.

I just bought a set new, and today at lunch will be picking up files so I can craft a couple more over the weekend.

I would not sweat the background check, but making your own picks will offer you ease of mind and some fun, too. HTH

...here's a link to a how-to...

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=8205

by **raimundo** » 15 Jul 2005 13:54

Don't sweat the gov't checkups, the feebs assign the rookies to that stuff because no one really takes it seriously. Bernie Kerick, got to be police commissioner of New York with his political and mob connections, and never filled out his questionaire when he needed a clearance. But finally, the Press caught up to him for doing 'johnbolton' pranks while in arabia, getting idiotic in a foriegn hotel and such. It was all the gifts and favors for the mob that finally prevented him from being head paranoid at homeland security, (the other guy who had the job spent all the money on hawaiian vacations for himself and his 100 closest toadies.

by **RenderMan** » 15 Jul 2005 15:39

As someone who I know is known to federal agencies (nothing criminal, just 'interesting'), I do know that they keep an eye on alot of not illegal, but 'items of interest'. However, purchase of lockpicks should'nt be of any concern since most thieves usually don't bother with such things and just go through the window or kick in the door.

Purchase at the same time as a grappling hook, suction cups, repelling gear and a guide book to the art museums of Manhattan, you might get some more attention.

I'm not worried about my involvement with lockpicking and buying gear. Hell, I'm hosting the first Edmonton LSI meeting in my basement. Keep the rest of your activities above board and you'll be fine.

In case your wondering you can read the details of my CSIS file here:
http://www.renderlab.net/projects/wardrive/CSIS/

by **Chrispy** » 15 Jul 2005 16:15

Storing and accessing personal information (including purchase information) and storing and accessing personal information that is admissable in court are two completely different things. One is naive to think the former does not happen.

by **fixer** » 15 Jul 2005 21:53

Faxman wrote:It never ceases to amaze.

I don't know if it is on purpose, or by accident, that media has programmed us into believing that our every move is watched and recorded, when the truth is alot less frightening.

Don't get me wrong, I am well aware of the POTENTIAL for big brother and his peripherals to hone in on us in a most uncomfortable way, as I am aware that certain government agencies (Military, Inteligence services Etc.) do closely monitor their employees. The overall public though?

The UK is rapidly becoming a police state. Most large towns have police surveilance systems in the central areas. Every person attending a public sporting event has their face recorded. Maybe not 'Big Brother', but perhaps his cousin

Yes, I know I live in Florida, but I used to live in England.

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