Major Safe Combination Lock Won't Open

[DeltaHawk]

Hi guys, I'm hoping for some help on this one.
I have a Major Safe (floor model with 6-3/4" round lid) that I bought new about 20 years ago, give or take. I hadn't used it (opened it) for many years, but just recently started using it again.

I've been in and out of it about a half dozen times this past week before it quit opening for me. The dial feels kind of gummy, and I can feel the "stops" where it comes up on the tumblers.
I am not a locksmith, but what I think is happening is that the inside of the lock mechanism is a bit gummy with age so the tumblers drag each other out of position.

I've tried over and under coding by a digit and in lots of combinations, but I'm still locked out. I'd like to save this safe and just get it open one more time so I can have the lock rebuilt. I'm hoping some of you could offer some clues as to how to free this thing up so I don't have to destroy it.

TIA,
Deltahawk

[HeadHunterCEO]

flys are prolly sticking

Say the combo is 10-20-30

dial 9-19-29
then -11-21-31

basically trying to compensate for the stick

also try spinning the dial 4 times to the right as quick as you can then go left 4 times then right again

this will prolly break the stick. if you get it open take the head of the safe a smith and he will repair the asfe pack for ya

[CaptHook]

Ive seen a combination be off as far as 3 numbers, so play around with it before you pay for an opening..... you may get lucky and hit it. Remember once its open...... do NOT close the door until you have the wheel pack serviced.
Chuck

[Chucklz]

S&G has a lovely procedure chart in their online techmanual (which I cannot seem to find at the moment.... someone will have a link though). They have you attempt 10 digits in each direction.

[CaptHook]

http://www.sglocks.com/sup_pdf.php
There ya go.
Chuck

[NKT]

Would it not make sense to repeatedly spin the dials all over the place, so that whatever goo is dragging on the bearings gets warm and less sticky, and then try opening it?

Also, if the stuff was dragging a little, turning 10-20-30 would become more like 9-21-29, wouldn't it?

[DeltaHawk]

Thanks guys, but I'm still trying with the advice given here and no joy.
Keep 'em coming if you got 'em, but I'm running out of options at this point.
I'm going to keep trying the advice given here for a few more days and keep playing around with it, but it's not looking good.

Follow up: Exactly what kind of goo might be in there? Is it possible that putting a heat lamp on it to warm it up to 150 degrees or so might help?

I'm a little skeptical that over or under dialing the combo will help because it seems to me that it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where a dragging wheel would drag an EXACT distance each time it's dialed. My non-professional opinion is that one of the wheels is dragging big-time where it's taken totally out of position (nowhere near where it's supposed to be) when the adjacent wheel is turned.
Over and under dialing makes sense for maybe a worn lock, but from what I can feel with mine, I am definitely dragging a wheel, probabably from non-use for all those years where any grease or lube in the mechanism has dried out and gone solid.

Thanks again,
Deltahawk

[NKT]

I'd try whacking a power drill with forward and reverse onto it. Spin it back and forth a few dozen times at speed.

Then dial the combo.

It might break something, though, so don't use too much speed.

Using a blowtorch would be a bad idea, a heat lamp might be ok, though how powerful would it be? Perhaps if you left it out in the full sun for a few hours? Let it bake in the sun a bit, and it should warm it all up nicely.

Not sure what else to suggest, really.

[Chucklz]

I would say that just hooking up any high speed rotating device to a precision instrument would be...... bad.

[CaptHook]

Wheel packs are very.... VERY lightly lubed. But over alot of years, a little bit of dust, grime, wear, and the flys will stick. The heating lamp wont work, do not try to chuck the dial in a drill......
I have that part of the manual handy. It is pretty detailed, but still easy to follow. Ill pm you the file.
Chuck

[oldlock]

Here is an emergency procedure.

Make up a mix of wd40 & light 3 in 1 oil.

and pour it in between the dial and ring, at the same time use a thick rubber band around the dial to the chuck of an electric drill to revolve the dial at low speed.

This should get the lubricant down into the lock where it may unstick the fly's etc.

Then dial it up really slowly !

Only use as a last ditch procedure when everything else has been tried. In the event that it works the lock will require a full service afterwards.

[Chucklz]

Here is what I was thinking of

http://www.sglocks.com/pdf/book_mech_locks.pdf


Start on page 9.

[hzatorsk]

...I'm hoping some of you could offer some clues as to how to free this thing up so I don't have to destroy it....

TIA,
Deltahawk

A good safe tech and carefully advance the dials around and feel where the next wheel pickup occurs. Typically, the each fly has a 10 digit advance and anything other than that gives an indication of:

a) which fly may be stuck.
b) how far off it is
c) which way it has to be compensated for.

A worse nightmare is an unlocked fly... which is slipping and may randomly move the wheel an undetermined distance. (it is possible to detect this also).

A good safe tech with the 'known good' combination can usually work out the problem in a few minutes and work out a solution in short order.

I, myself... am not a proponent of oil penetration or blow torch techniques.

Call a safe tech!

hzatorsk

[HeadHunterCEO]

here is what i am thinkiing

http://members.cox.net/divtec2/id2.htm

[Varjeal]

Nkt: Also, if the stuff was dragging a little, turning 10-20-30 would become more like 9-21-29, wouldn't it?

No, it wouldn't...because the combination pack is set up to dial LRL or RLR the middle number must be dialed OPPOSITE the other two.

In regards to the safe combo itself, turning the dial all in one direction isn't going to help for similar reasons as stated above including the fact that once the flys pick up, the pack will be turning as a whole.

My best idea (as others have stated) is to simply continue dialling the combo up and down a max of ten numbers repeatedly. If you have one or access to one, find a deadblow hammer (preferrably plastic or some other substance that won't mar the paint) and after each combo give the door a good wack between the dial and handle. It might jar the pack enough to open.

It sounds as if your dragging problem is due to debris (grease that has picked up dust, insulation material, etc) and simply working it around should eventually loosen it up. Also try quick movements of the dial as opposed to the more proper "smooth" action to try and get some of the debris away from the mechanism.

Definitely make sure when you get it open to give it a good cleaning.