Am I out of my league?

[cracksman]

I only started picking a couple of weeks ago but have become addicted. Yes, I'm a noob, but I have done alot of reading and alot of practice, and now I could use some advice. I have gone through the cheap padlocks, up through the Master 1, 3, and 5 and can pick them pretty much at will (accept for the #1 that gives me a problem -bad pin placement). So I bought a Brinks, shrouded, high security, 6 pin padlock (uses an A1045 key blank-low profile pick entry) and I'm going insane. I did order a slimline 11 piece set, and I make my own picks so I will have the proper tools shortly. My question is: Should I reasonably be able to pick this lock as the next progression of difficulty from my previous attempts, or am I out of my league for the present?

In other words: Does anybody have some examples of simple locks to more difficult ones that u guys/girls used to gain proficiency in the art?
-or was that a noob question altogether

[ThE_MasteR]

I first stared with a 3-pin thumbler lock and got it with a trombone and diper safety pin, and that took me around 2 weeks. I then went from the 3-pin to 4-pin padlock, and got it in 3 minutes. Then whent for something harder, a Master Key padlock the big blue ones, and took me around 15 minutes and I got it, and that one had 4-pins as well. Just to say, if you try to go real hard the first time, you'll maybe loose patient and at the extreme, the passion you have for lock picking. So go slowly, and make you're way thru at your rythme. Just my 2 cents

[stick]

You jumped from low to high security, without any real practice with decent locks. Try to get ahold of a Schlage deadbolt type lock, or even something cheaper, like a Kwikset.

Going from a 3 pin Master lock to a 6 pin high security Brinks lock is a very large leap.

[digital_blue]

I have to say that this was an awesome newbie post, so good on ya for that. I too would recommend at this point that you move on to a deadbolt. Pretty much any deadbolt. The advantage there is that you can reduce the number of pins and work your way up.

The other thing I would ask is about technique. Many of the cheap master padlocks can be raked open pretty easy, so I am curious if that is the only technique you have learned thus far? Or are you picking each pin individually and actually paying close attention to the feedback the lock is giving you? If you're raking it, that's not a bad thing 'cause as far as I'm concerned a victory is a victory, but if that's the only technique you've developed you are going to limit yourself on higher quality locks. You don't want to just settle as a "one trick pony" if you know what I mean. So consider your technique and consider if there are other methods that you can work on.

Hope this helps some. Happy picking!

db

[raimundo]

I think that is the same shiny plated lock I have been fooling around with, it really held me up at first, but now I have done it hundreds of times, I still haven't finished the key for it, (It was given to me without keys, so I have tried to impression it, but only worked at that a few times, )
this lock uses the common american padlock key, (sorry I don't know the number,) it has serrations in the bottom pins, and at least two and probably more spool pins.
probably when you tried to pick it, you got it to turn about 15 degrees, it only takes a little bit of picking to get there, then it gets difficult. are you holding it in your hand? thats how I am doing it, and since its a padlock thats the way to do it, but you might want to clamp it and free up the tensor hand, make yourself a steep diamond pick ______________/\ and sand it very smooth. Also try to make a tensor that is as wide as you can make so that it will not try to turn sideways in the bottom of the keyway, but will touch the middle wards and be held upright. Sand the edges of this very well, the bottom where it touches the cylinder wall should have no roughness, and the top will touch your polished pick so sand that too.
Look for two high cuts on the key, (do you have the keys? that is a big step if you can see them?) any way, pick it until it turns 15 degrees, then press the pin furthest in the lock up while keeping the slightest tension on the plug, there is no springback on this lock, and it has some loose tolerances, so it will turn easily when you get it open, but as you press up on the pins with that steep smooth diamond, look for the tensor to push back anti clockwise, if it does this you are on a spool, and expect on on the deepest pin or the next deepest. you may be able to set this when you push it up and allow the tensor to push back counterclockwise, your 15 degree angle will be reduced, after you set this pin, look closer to the front of the keyway for more of them, there may be two more, when you see the lock try to go in reverse, anticlockwise, you are on one of them. as you set it, if it is the last one, two things are possible, the lock will open, or some pins already set will fall. If that happens, you get to keep trying, don't dispair, its fun. Just set them up again and try doing it in some different order, soon it will suddenly open with no pressure at all.
THIS LOCK RESPONDS TO THE LIGHTEST TENSION. ANY HEAVY TENSION WILL JUST MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE. Even medium tension is a dealbreaker.
And Jimmie, if your reading this, those locks you sent me are devilish hard, but do open with bogota rakes, the spools or mushrooms in them are not so deeply undercut as this brinks lock, the brinks really makes it easier because you can see the plug turning quite a bit.
On the brinks padlock, I have not gotten it to open with the bogota rake, but actually when the steep diamond got it, I quit trying that rake, I also tried an american padlock bump key but that didn't work for me, I am not the bump key expert here, so that proves nothing. I expect a bump key will work fine on these in the hands of a person with more experience. I also tried reverse picking with the bogota rake, no result except to quickly get to the spool lock up at 15 degrees. of course now that I know that the lightest tension is the only thing that works, that may be what I had wrong.

[SFGOON]

Paracentric keyways drive me nuts to this day. Romstar has some suggestions to modify picks with a slight bend that makes them easier to use in such circumstances, I think the name of the thread is "paracentric keyway" Have a butcher's.

[cracksman]

Thanks for all the replies
All have been very helpful, In response to digital_blue: I've been using a small diamond and hook (mostly hook) to pick pin by pin rather than raking, so I've developed a basic feel for setting pins. Then I read Raimundo's advice (and printed out -thanks for your time and a thorough and knowledgeable response) and realized that I really have [u]alot[/u] to learn. I have studied high security pins in theory, but I think for my own sanity I'll hold off on tackling my brinks lock until I gain more experience (Then I'll revisit Raimundo's advice with a little more confidence and understanding) . I'd also like to thank ThE_MasteR and stick for their advice and encouragement-helped me from getting too frustrated
p.s. I'm gonna compile a list of locks I picked in order of ease and I'll post it for other noobs like myself. I don't know if Digital_Blue, Raimundo, or SFGOON (paracentric whats?-sorry I'll study up) can remember back when they started but I'd love to get an idea how they progressed.
Thanks again

[stick]

Paracentric means that the wards of the keyway protrude past the imaginary middle line of the keyway. It requires careful manuvering of your pick, which makes it really irritating.

[vector40]

To clarify, the reason a paracentic keyway is difficult to maneuver is because there's no "vertical" line anymore -- the keyway is literally shaped like a zig-zag. In most keyways, it's a basically rectangular space with wards protruding into it; in a paracentric, there's no rectangular space at all -- just angular sideways ones. Since you want to put the pick in vertically and press vertically upward on the pins, you've got trouble.

[raimundo]

although the wards cross over the center from both sides, the pin channels in the paracentrick keyways must be straight and wider than the keyway. this allow some types of hook picks to get in and pick, but paracentrick keyways are also a sign of the manufacturer trying harder, so they usually also have security pins. Manuvering the the pick is the difficulty, but the locks can be picked. You think about the particular problem, then you design a pick for it, thinner, with a steeper hook, ____/