LP air key

[BUNGYSTRAP]

If you have just clicked onto this then maybe this has sparked an interest into something you have already thought about. Has anyone done any work with or related to using LP air to bypass locks, in particular with reference to pins and cylinders. I have some ideas and theories which should work and a few which I know do work. An interesting route differing from the standard mechanical means.

[pip]

i was thinking of that too...
something similar to using a bump key

i've bought one of those aerosol cans for cleaning the dust
from your computer - but i don't think it has enough pressure
i was using my tension wrench at the top of the keyway
and hoping for the best - more testing needed
i'm not going to go out and buy a compressor just so i can get
more psi - perhaps if one of the members here has an air compressor
they could experiment
i will be doing further testing with different aerosol cans
maybe a shot of wd40 into the keyway while appling tension

i'm even thinking of trying to somehow
adapt a co2 cartridge using the guts of an old air pistol

[Chrispy]

It is never a good idea to spray WD40 into a lock, unless you intend to strip the lock and clean it before reassembling it. Or unless you don't really care about the lock....

Chrispy

[Shrub]

WD40 actually acts as a degreaser !!!

I have had various thoughts about this, perhaps an airbag type thing in the lock would lift the pins and by trying various materials find one that doesnt compress the lock springs as much thus getting them to the shear line,

A very good tip i have from when i was a kid and used to airbrush models is to get the spare tyre from the car and use that as an air source, you get a good amount of air at a decent pressure, then pump it back up to be used again, cheap but effective.

[Shrub]

Also i dont know what you are calling LP gas but here that means Liquid Propane and is definatley not to be used for this process !!!!

We just call it compressed air over here

Thought i would just say before anyone with a fag on doing this loses their face.

[SFGOON]

In the US,"smoking a cigarette" and "having a fag on" are two very different things... go to dictionary.com and have a butcher's.

[RenderMan]

hmmmm.

Perhaps a small diameter pipe (end capped) inserted into the keyway with a row of holes long it's length lined up with the pins could be used with enough pressurized gas to lift pins and act as a 'air bump key' as mentioned.

hmm, new experiment this weekend

[Houdini Locksmiths]

I've also thought about this idea before, Renderman, thats the way I thought it could be done by inserting a narrow hose into keyway. I think you would have to pulsate the air pressure whilst varying the tension with the turning tool.

[Mad Mick]

Assuming a decent seal could be made with the plug face whilst using the tension wrench, short sharp bursts of compressed air may make the pins vibrate. The majority of plugs have an opening in the rear of the plug due to the machining process of the keyway, which will result in air leakage...some tail pieces will almost completely block this opening, others will not.

An ideal electrical 'controller' which could produce the short sharp bursts, is your common automotive 3 pin flasher unit. This controls vehicle indicators and works off the load applied by having to light the bulbs. Ever noticed how one indicator flashes much faster when a bulb is out on one side? Imagine the speed when both bulbs are out. Use the flasher unit to control a solenoid, which opens/closes the compressed air supply to the plug. If memory serves me correctly, pin 31 goes to ground, pin 15 (maybe marked 30) goes to batt+, and pin 58 goes to the consumer(solenoid). The ground side of the solenoid would go through a momentary push switch.

Expect to destroy plenty of driver springs until the ideal air pressure is found.

HTH,
Mick.

[RenderMan]

If you had a decent enough regulator on your compressor/supply to adjust and find the right pressure to lift the pins, the natural variation in the pressure down the hose should be enough to vibrate the pins against the springs. Should'nt need alot of pressure, just good directionality

[vector40]

Assuming a decent seal could be made with the plug face whilst using the tension wrench

Lost me already. How are you going to do that? Even assuming that the back of the keyway is closed (usually not), I doubt I'd exactly call the gallery airtight.

[Varjeal]

The difficulty in using air as a means of causing pins/wafers to bounce is the following:

1.) no lock is sealed, and usually there is a great deal of outlet for the air to go...of course, the air will normally follow the path of least resistance.

2.) the air pressure must overcome spring pressure and the friction of the pin/wafer against the plug and shell of the lock cylinder.

3.) air adjustment would have to be made for each individual chamber since each would be required to travel a different distance.

Interesting theory though so I'm willing to listen/read.

[MrB]

I think it would be most effective for the air blasts to "puff" the pins up by jet pressure, rather than try to make any kind of seal in the lock. I envisage something like a Sputnik key with little nozzles under each pin in place of the wires.

While applying slight tension with the key, the puffer jets are run in sequence or simultaneously to drive the pins in a manner like either an electric pick gun or like a bogota rake, or some combination of the two. One can hope that with continual application of tension and puffing the pins up then eventually all the pins will catch at the shear line and the lock will open.

I suspect though that the springs will be stronger than the air jets, and it would be hard to make the pins move at all.

[pip]

.

i have not tried this on a deadbolt because of the opening
created when the hole was drilled in the door
i am however trying it on a simple key-in knob kwikset
( with and without sealing the joints )
i believe by using a key-in-knob there is less space
for the air pressure to escape to and hopefully
some release will be in the pins moving upward

my testing is going on the workings of a bump key
a simple small blast of air to " bump " the pins up

[BUNGYSTRAP]

When contemplating LP and HP in gas terms it is usual to accept that LP equates to Low Pressure up to about 8 bar or around 100 psi, whereas HP equates to High Pressure and anything above that. Nice to see some are thinking along the same lines as I was originally when I posted this question. I really think that this would only work on cylinders and early attempts have been promising. he idea would be to use a hollow blade with a blanked end that LP air could pass through and be directed directly onto the lower part of the pins. By varying the supply quite rapidly the change in pressure should be enough to manipulate the pins without mechanical contact and so give more feel to the tension wrench. Glad to see that this has been food for thought.