need help on a lock with no pins

[spikedeath]

ok, i am fairly new to lock-picking, and i have come across a lock that from what i can tell has no pins, all i know about the lock is that its made by brinks, inside the lock i can see four circular layers, " well some what circular".

[Geek142]

Hmmm. I think i know the answer but i dont want to embarrass myself because ill probably get it wrong.ah well i might aswell try (rotating disk lock???) I am going to say thanks to anyone that answers because ill learn something aswell

Geek

[zekeo]

This is a wafer lock. You'll find plenty of information with a quick search.

[Geek142]

Circular layers? i havent seen a wafer with circular layers.

Geek

[zeke79]

Is the lock a brinks warded lock by chance? If so it would look something like this


Note the small hump in the middle of the lock body beneath the middle of the shackle. If this is the case it is a warded lock. This particular lock is a master lock, but the brinks are very similar in appearance. If this is not that case then I would assume it is a wafer style lock which are the "layers" you are seing. Maybe if you can get us a picture of the keyway of the lock we would be be ablel to tell you a bit more.

[Chrispy]

A picture speaks a thousand words and would help a great deal....

[Geek142]

I agree. because i am just gettin confused

Geek

[SFGOON]

You have one of two things, either an abus disk tumbler lock or a warded lock. Neither one picks conventioanlly. Warded locks are very simple to pick, abus requires special tools that most can't get ahold of, to include myself. What doesn the key look like? THAT would be a great clue.

[spikedeath]

Is the lock a brinks warded lock by chance? If so it would look something like this


Note the small hump in the middle of the lock body beneath the middle of the shackle. If this is the case it is a warded lock. This particular lock is a master lock, but the brinks are very similar in appearance. If this is not that case then I would assume it is a wafer style lock which are the "layers" you are seing. Maybe if you can get us a picture of the keyway of the lock we would be be ablel to tell you a bit more.

Yes that is the lock, can you give me any tips on how to pick it?

[MrB]

You need a T shaped pick where the T is about the width of the key. You stick the pick in at various depths and twist until the padlock pops open.

Those locks are not designed to provide any reasonable kind of pick resistance, they merely try to ensure that the wrong key won't operate the lock.

[raimundo]

You need to make two picks, these will both look like a T with two cross pieces on the top, just a little under the width of the keyway, or as wide as the key if you have it. the space between the two cross pieces on the T with two cross pieces should be just a bit greater than the width of two laminations,(the layers that the lock body is made of) on the first pick, and on the second pick make that space the width of three laminations, the crosspiece should be just a bit less than the width of a lamination, but if you look closely at the lock and see that there are laminations that are wider than the rest of the stack, you can make the cross piece as wide as one of these laminatins, if you make this of some mild steel like brickstrap, you might have to try to harden it, if you make it of a piece of already hardened steel like a .020" feeler gauge, cutting will be more work, but do not harden it, the feeler gauge is tempered, not too hard and brittle, not to soft and bendy. using any motorized grinder for the mass wasting can harden this feelergauge steel, if it is not quenched often or continuously, (like a drip from a dishwashing detergent bottle just over the grindstone) do not make the central shaft any thinner than the thickest piece of wooden coffee stirrer that will rotate completely inside the center of the the keyway, (use any sort of test piece to get this dimension that will not leave pieces inside the lock, or just get the shaft dimension from the key.)

[mckutzy]

i do agree with raimundo, but i once solved this problem with a junker i found on the ground of similar discription , after some cleaning i used a steel wire a couple mm. thick, and at the end a bend @ a few degrees, pushed the locking lever that was at the side. it opened fairly easly. u could make some blanks if u like, altho this maby a bit better.

[raimundo]

by junker, he means a found key, not a prussian martinet, the keys come in a few different keyways, controled on the lock by that rotating curtain, the keys are the usual basis for makeing a pick to these, when I was in grade school, kids made them, I hammered the key flatter and thinner, then filed it back to dimension, (it gets wider when you do that) so that it would fit in all the keyways. then you just cut away the useless parts of the key, and leave those two cross pieces with the spacing of two laminations between them. You should buy a warding file for this work, put a wine bottle cork on the tang of it so you don't get the tang in your hand. the warding file will be an essential part of any locksmiths tool kit and should be kept in a sleeve to protect its sharp from getting beat down by all that other heavy hard steel in the tool box.

[Kaellman]

Has anyone got pictures of the inside of this lock? Would clearify things so much more. Dont get me wrong here, i do understand the basics of how the lock type works and how the pick manipulates it, but its always fun to see how the puzzle looks when its solved, if you know what i mean

[MrB]

I haven't picked one of these locks since I was a child, but I always found you could pick them using a T with a single cross piece. You would move the pick up and down the lock until you found the lever that was binding. Operate that and the shackle would pop up slightly on its spring. Then move the pick again and find the second lever, and the shackle would spring open. There were usually only two levers, but there could be three I suppose. The procedure would be the same: pick the levers in the order of binding. Is my memory off on this?