M first one :)

[bman737]

Hey guys, i would first like to thank all of you, you guys inspiered me to keep trying at it. At first i tried for 2 hours and nothing. the next day i got it in 10 minutes, i thought it was luck so i tried again, i got the next one in about 5 seconds. But since then it seems i cant get the pins down, i get the back one down but after that everone doesnt want to go, the only move down if i press REALLY hard, i try to loosen up and the back pin pops back up. any comments or advice greatly appreciated.
-Brandon

[sonic]

Sounds like your lock does not necessarly need to be picked from back to front. Put your light tension on and find the pin that is actually binding. It may not be the back pin.

I have a master lock that picks 2, 3, 4, and then the front pin number 1.

If you are forcing a pin then the others just won't work.

[bman737]

ok ill try that, my lock is a 2 inch all brass, i think theres five pins, its the same lock as in the video where the kid does it in like 4 seconds. but thnx ill try it

[cracksman]

Generally locks pick back to front because of wear (the 1 pin gets bumped 5 times each time a key is inserted and the back one only once.) Many hobbyists buy locks new, or use padlocks that the key is rarely used. Follow this rule: the pin to pick is the one that binds, sounds like your tension is too heavy as well. Good Luck

[digital_blue]

Generally locks pick back to front because of wear...

I don't know that I agree with that. The picking order usually has more to do with misalignments of the pin chambers that are inherent in the manufacturing process. Wear on the pins is usually more on the end of the pins and, thus, would have little influence on the picking order.

But that's just how I knows it... I'm up for an argument on it.

db

[tastyfish]

I have to agree with DB, the way I understand how binding order works is how you decribed it DB.

But I'm intrested to know why you thought wear would change binding order cracksman, tell us your theroy.

And Bman737, try to avoid pressing so hard on the pins, I used to do that... untill I broke my favorate snake... I cryed on the inside.

well, I try to help.
Dan.

[Varjeal]

Wear can and often does change picking order. The slight tipping action of a pin in its chamber combined with the vertical motion produced from the use of a key or pick can and does cause uneven wear in a cylinder.

Depending on the the type of nickle-brass used for the plug, the chamber itself will begin to deform over time thus increasing the chance of becoming enough of a misalignment to change the order of picking.

[cracksman]

O.k. I'll try to weasel my way out of this one

When I said generally locks pick back to front I didn't mean it. I was wrong and terrbily sorry, it will never happen again, please, please if you can find it in your heart...

This is what I meant- I'm terribly new so correct me where I'm wrong. Alot of the reading I did before I started picking, I think M.I.T. as well, said to insert wrench then set the pick all the way to the back and work forward. I found this in more than one place and simply assumed you were supposed to pick back to front. I furthere reasoned that on a five pin tumbler (I'm sure I must of read this somewhere), the one pin would be bumped 5 times when the key was inserted and the 5 key only once. I saw the damage being caused more to the side of the pin than the bottom-if the pin begins its upward motion at a slight angle do to the force of the key pushing at an angle. The damage or wear would be found on the back side of the pin facing opposite the keyway where the pin would rub against its whole. Therefore the more the lock is used, and it would have to be a considerable amount, the more likely the front pins would get sloppy and the back ones would bind. Add a slight turning motion as the key is inserted and you could further wear the first couple pins before the keyway straightens the key.

I have absolutely no proof that any of this happens.

The reason I posted this was that it took me two days to open my first Kwikset because I had this theory in my mind, it was the two then the one that needed to be set first! It was not until I realized it was a new lock and there wouldn't be any wear and that I was an idiot, that I learned the painfully simple lesson of "Pick the one that binds".

I didn't want anyone else to have to learn that the hard way

That's my story and I'm stickin to it Maybe we should call it "Cracksman's hypothesis on why it takes two days to pick a Kwikset"

[digital_blue]

O.k. I'll try to weasel my way out of this one

Ironically, you didn't have to weasel yourself out of it, 'cause Varj came around and bailed you out. Ok, I stand corrected.

db

[zekeo]

Another observation that might help beginners:

I've found that most locks open with some variation of picking back to front for another reason not yet mentioned. When manipulating the rear pins, the shaft of the pick interacts with the front pins. For most middle-lenth pins, this interation will be enough to set the pins, but wont be enough to over-set them. In this way the front pins get set whether they bind first, third, or whatever. Every time I pick a quickset or master lock it takes usually 2 or 3 movements with the pick--the neck of the pick is setting the other pins.

Still, all this might be confusing for newbies who haven't figured out how locks even work yet--they should still be told that pins should be set in the order in which they bind.

[bman737]

And Bman737, try to avoid pressing so hard on the pins, I used to do that... untill I broke my favorate snake... I cryed on the inside.

well, I try to help.
Dan.

lmao, before i read this, last night i broke my pick. It was my first homemade so im not that angry, but now i need a new one.
Thanks for your help guys.
-Brandon

[savior]

yeah, my first lock picks 3, 4, 1, 2... that 2 feels like it jams... and i have to let the cylinder turn backwards, away from the unlock position, in order to set it. for a long time i thought it was just "false set" since i'm not sure what that feels like yet. but it ended up being that when i turned the tension wrench from the 1st pin setting, i was just applying too much pressure and the only way i could get pin 2 was to ease off on BOTH the tension wrench AND the pick very very slowly. if i only eased off on the tension wrench, eventually the pick just popped the pin past the sheer line.

[cracksman]

Every time I pick a quickset or master lock it takes usually 2 or 3 movements with the pick--the neck of the pick is setting the other pins.

Yeah Zekeo, I've found that true, especially on the Masters 1, 3, 5. My problem was that I used that as more of a crutch at the beginning. I found that I had learned how to pick 1 lock specifically with a few movements, but got real annoyed when, do to fatigue or whatever I couldn't always get things quite right and had problems opening them. Your point is well taken though and makes good sense to me

-now I'm just to lazy to pick my Masters pin by pin