picking apartment doors in the US - w/additional info

[jujawa]

Hey thanks for all the great responses. It sounds like one of those snap guns might do the trick nicely. If i could pick up one of those along w/ a basic set of picks, i think i could use the snap gun until i got proficient with the picks. Depending on the size of it i likely wouldnt carry it with me permanently. Generally speaking we know which buildings routinely give us a hard time getting into. You get very familiar with your division, your area, and the different buildings in the area. I could leave it in the door below the baton holder and grab it when i know im going into one of those buildings. Depending on how large it is it might fit in my sap pocket. I could just shove it in there once i'm done, and forget about it.

Varjeal, that is a good idea to check department policy prior to buying anything. I have already read up about lockpicks in the penal code, and it is legal in my state, unless you have the intent to commit a crime, which i obviously dont. So i think it would be unlikely that there would be a special rule prohibiting officers from carrying them when any citizen with a lawful purpose can do it.

It does sound like a good idea to have a professional give some divisional training. It would be an impossible task for a regular patrol officer like myself to actually get something like this implemented department-wide, but at the divisional level it might be possible if i can convince the training coordinator of our division. And if that doesnt work, then i'll just look for somebody that i can hire to help train myself.

[Chrispy]

If it's just yourself that you are going to teach (if your training coordinator doesn't go for the divisional thing), don't bother paying someone, just devour every piece of this site. Trust me, there is nothing like it anywhere that has as much information, techniques, instructions, comments, reviews, examples, solutions and knowledge that LP101 does.

[jujawa]

That sounds even better. I am in the process of devouring it, but dang there is a lot to read and the site has in turn devoured my day.

[Chrispy]

Tell me about it....

[Chucklz]

Thank you for being a police officer who checks the penal code from time to time. There are quite a few lp101 members in your neck of the woods. Maby they wouldn't mind having a police officer friend to pick with. It would sure help to show that our hobby is legitimate.

Concerning your pick gun, there has been a bit posted in the past about rounding over your needles, much the way that raimundo rounds his picks. A set of bogota rakes wouldn't set you back much at all, especially considering how quickly they open a lock-- given that you learn to use them correctly. They are also a small and light set, easily fitting in your wallet or badge holder, or wherever you wish. I would still say to get a basic kit, perhaps from Peterson, as they will certainly stand up to some hard use. Learn as much as you can, then begin to craft your own tools to your own style.

[digital_blue]

That sounds even better. I am in the process of devouring it, but dang there is a lot to read and the site has in turn devoured my day.

Your day?? One day?? tell me when it starts to devour your life.

For the record, I'm the one who locked your first thread. Please don't take it personally, but I'm sure as a law enforcement officer you can appreciate what we try to do here. If you read your original post through the eyes of someone who knows nothing about yourself, I'm sure you'll see that the implications did not look good. I, for one, think that at this point you've given a satisfactory explaination, so here's some thoughts I have to offer. It has not been mentioned yet, but many apartments use a maison keying system for public access doors. This typically entails putting just a couple pins in the lock (pins one and two, for example). Then all apartment door keys use the same bitting for pins one and two, but create differs though the next 3 pins. This means that those public access doors can be rediculously easy to pick, having only two pins. This means that you may find it very plausible to gain consistent access in mere seconds. Of course, you'll have to do a little exploration to determine whether or not this is the case. If residents use the same key to open their suite door as the main door, it is a reasonable chance that this setup is in place (though not necessarily still).

As for how long it will take for you to gain a useable skillset in lockpicking, that completely depends on your detication to practice. I have been picking for less than one year, and it is a pretty rare deadbolt or key-in-knob (not high security) lock that will take me any more than a minute - maybe two if ppl are watching. With detication and practice you can achieve the same or better. But this is not going to happen just by occational practice. You really need to work at it. Think of it like learning to play guitar. If that level of commitment is not going to work out for you, then perhaps the pick gun will work out well for you, but it's not exactly a magic wand either. There is some skill required. It takes practice. And more importantly, there are times where a pickgun is just not going to do it, even in skilled hands. Plus, they tend to be noisy as all getup, so if covert is your keyword, I'd save my money on the gun.

Hope this helps. I also hope you decide to stick around and be a part of the cummunity. It's a great place full of some pretty good people and a ton of valuable knowledge.

Happy picking!

db

db

[TOWCH]

It sounds like some of the situations you're expecting to need this in, plain clothes and such, you don't want to advertise you're picking the lock. Although it's slightly helpful when first learning, I would advise learning how to pick without standing in what I like to call "Universal Lockpicking Stance." An example of the universal lockpicking stance would be the ninja on that t-shirt being advertised on the top of the page. Nothing screams "I'm picking this lock!" like kneeling in front of the lock looking down the keyway in universal lockpicking stance. A better alternative is standing up and picking at waist level while leaning on the door or frame to obstruct the view. Instead of screaming "I'm picking this lock!", it says "I'm tired and or intoxicated and having trouble getting this key to work this lock." Slightly less suspicious to the casual observer.

[MrB]

db - electric pick guns may be noisy and bulky, but manual snap guns can be much lighter and quieter. Possibly just as effective in skilled hands too.

[vector40]

I don't suppose the buildings you're entering are equipped with Knox Boxes.

[digital_blue]

db - electric pick guns may be noisy and bulky, but manual snap guns can be much lighter and quieter. Possibly just as effective in skilled hands too.

Manual pick guns are pretty noisy in my books. I'm not referring to the homemade snap picks, so much as an actual pick gun. *snap*snap*snap* ... not very stealthy in my books. Also, I did say that they take practice, so I think we agree, that in skilled hands they can be effective. I simply said they are not a magic wand. And there are at least a few locks I've come up against that just won't give with a pick gun no matter how much finessing I try to give it, but they do succumb to single-pin picking.

Cheers!

db

[Varjeal]

Oh oh...I need to publicly correct a mod...*cough cough* maison keying comes from the french "house" keying system allowing many different keys to work a single cylinder. One method is to remove several pins (an extremely poor practice) and the other isn't much better. It basically consists of stacking the pin-chambers with enough master pins to make the bunch of keys work. This keys the wear on the cylinder even, but as most of you well know it still makes the lock relatively simple to pick.

If the lock has been properly master-keyed however, it won't be as the above situations suggest.

[jujawa]

Digital blue-

After thinking about it, i absolutely do appreciate how quickly you locked the thread, and how serious you take it when someone appears to be asking questions for illegal purposes. No harm done at all, its refreshing to see someone who actually cares about the law.

I have been reading these forums non stop and i am beginning to be very interested in lockpicking as a hobby as well as for work. That being said, i think that i will look into buying a set of picks rather than going for the snap gun or other methods requiring less skill. As you said, it also totally gives away the element of surprise if its loud and obvious. My personality is such that when i get into a hobby, i go all out and i think that lockpicking will likely be my next hobby. Given that, i think that with a lot of practice i could become efficient with a set of picks and that would be the best way to go.

A couple of posters mentioned that these locks may be a certain universal type that are easier to pick. From experience i am quite certain that this is indeed the case. I am almost positive that the vast majority of the cheaper apartment buildings use the same key for the outer gate and the apartment doors themselves. If this is the case, it would be great to know that with practice they can be picked in a couple of minutes.

With that in mind, is the set of lockpicks recommended in the FAQ probably the best way to go or is there better our there for this task? Keep in mind that size and weight are to be considered, but speed is an even larger consideration. If a smaller, more portable set would work, but makes it harder to pick, then it would be a bad trade off. I am going to look into the ones mentioned in the above post, as well as search the forums for more info.

Again, thanks a lot for the help, and thanks to you all for your thousands and thousands of previous posts that i've been reading and benefiting from.

[Varjeal]

For sure, the set mentioned in the FAQ will be more than adequate for the task.

Although some of us are chronic lock pick collectors and seem to have dozens if not more picks in our arsenal, once you've found your preferred picks you likely won't carry more than a dozen with about as many tension wrenches. Best of luck in your hunt.

I'm going to lock this thread since it appears we've looked after most of your questions thus far. Feel free to start a new thread if you have further questions and welcome to the sport of lockpicking.