I think an apology is in order!!!! ;)

[EricM]

Oh guys check the update on Crypto.com

http://crypto.com/photos/misc/mul-t-lock/

Mul-T-Lock responds, and quite well might I add, compared to what locksmiths say when

"OH THE MANUFACTURER WON'T MAKE CHANGES, WELL HERE'S ONE FOR THE HISTORY BOOKS, ALONGSIDE KRYPTONITE, ETC. etc.

So when they say oh they will never do it, I guess they never had the back to do it.

And might I add Mul-T-Lock are good people, plus cylinders.

( and yes I typed, good people)

[strider68744]

Whoa, that looks like a pretty tricky lock. I have no idea if you can do anything with traditional picks... probably have to craft your own, right?

[EricM]

Actually this gives me an idea guys, maybe we can make a new section for this, that would possibly pertain to actual concerns that a simple modification or something even serious that would be required to change the lock , but in fact would prevent many things like bypasses to happen or grossly simple bypasses, we could have a industry wide let period, where we give the companies a period of time to make a change before we make it public then they have to worry about losing market share or customers getting angry, such as the Kryptonite incident.

I feel that would give locksmiths the ability en masse, to push their own concerns along with the lockpickers/hobbiests.

Type up what you actually think, I mean something may not be able to be changedin a system without a complete revamp but I mean rules and regulations. Please make up a new post that is as full as let's say any of the rules for joining the advanced section or possibly the rules for using and not abusing the LP101 site.

Those are simple rules to abide by, and are pretty easy, think of it like a full disclosure site such as http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1 like bugtraq where people would post vulnrabilities to lock systems and then they would be sent to the companies after verification and such, and if they say it's not an issue then of course they wouldn't mind if someone posted it on the internet because they said themselves it's not a issue they are concerned about.

[EricM]

Let's use this moment as a step forward in voicing our concerns about the physical security industry and the turn around that locksmiths complain about that change won't happen, we have already proved that it does.

IT'S THE COST OF DOING GOOD BUSINESS!

[raimundo]

They may make changes but they won't admit that this is the reason, their lawyer probably told them that if they admit it, they'll owe somebody money.

[EricM]

Well that's fine, but you know what, if changes are made to the line that prevent things like these examples and their are probably many more of them that you guys can list, I think this is an interesting start, oh and the apology is not from Mul-T-Lock that I am asking for it's from people that say the manufacturers won't change, and in the last 12 months we have seen some interesting changes I'd have to say.

Whether it may be lawyers or not I'm not concerned with that.

But I would have to say if they know of a problem and we find out ,and they don't make changes, eventually, and not before it becomes a huge problem.

I mean come on guys, the physical security industry as with any industry is selling something, all I'm saying is it's for security, well, live up to the name, and if something happens, like that of course it's negligence, but I'm not for blood, I'd just like accountability.

If your selling something for security, and that company makes claims, live up to them, or don't make them. They are setting their own standards. Which is fine, just make sure only good things happen.

[SM964]

Well even if they changed the locks theres always going to be a way around it. I have no doubt that someone can find a way to pick that lock.

[EricM]

Of course someone can always pick the lock, but how long to pick the lock is not necessarily one of the issues, it's more so that bypass techniques which are easy to implement exist, and if they can be prevented or stopped, in reguards to changes with the lock system, they don't have to be as bad as changing the lock, sometimes all it takes is a different pin.

At the very least making the consumer aware of the problem.

[NKT]

The response isn't actually much use, though.

Mul-T-Lock have not stated that they are doing it, nor that they will. If Matt Blaze hadn't stuck it up on teh IntarWeb, nothing would have been done at all. Now at least something *might* be done.

[serrurier]

Is it me or putting the key sideways is not necessarily very scary in itself? The system allows for the key to be entered both ways but only the top side does the work. All this seems a bit like showing off with simply changing small stuff but making it look like a lot bigger than they are.

Just a thought

[vector40]

Dimple locks are a little like tubular locks in that respect. Much of their deterrence comes from shock value; you're not familiar with the form factor, so you don't want to mess with it, even if the mechanism itself is a blood brother to an ordinary pin tumbler.

[fixer]

The nice thing about the Mul-T-Lock keys is that you can cut a different set of bittings on each side of the key, so one key operates two different locks.

As has been said many times, no lock is pick proof. The question is 'what are you protecting and for how long?'

Picking a kwikset can be done by most people in a short period of time. Picking a Medeco Biaxial, a Medeco M3 or a Mul-T-Lock or any other high security lock can be done by some people, but it takes a long time.

Like breaking into a computer, sometimes the easiest way is not to attack the front door, but to find a way to bypass it.

btw, there are special picks made for picking mul-t-lock